060 – Kate Northrup: From Scarcity to Plenty

0:05
Hello, welcome. I’m Sarah Tacy. And this is Threshold Moments, the podcast where guests and I share stories about the process of updating into truer versions of ourselves. The path is unknown, and the poll feels real. Together we share our grief, laughter, love, and life saving tools. Join us.

0:36
Hello, welcome to Threshold Moments. I’m very excited for you to be here with my good friend Kate Northrup. This is the first time I’ve had a returning guest. He helps ambitious people work less while having less stress and creating more abundance. Her motto is make a life not just a living. Kate helps people use a data-infused, soul-powered, nature-aligned, business-building framework to create planning practices and systems that honor not only their schedule and bottom line, but also their dreams, goals, desires, energy, the cosmos, the planet, and of course, their bodies.

1:16
Kate is a mama, a wife, a best-selling author of Money: A Love Story and her second book Do Less. Kate also has a podcast called Plenty. And she the founder and lead guide of relaxed money, which has it sort of opening for a new cohort, this April through the beginning of May.

1:35
This conversation is so great. I have so many questions I wanted to ask her and we ended up going back and forth.

1:45
Talking more about nervous system. And I think this is super useful because the threshold we’re talking about today is the threshold from a feeling of scarcity to a feeling of plenty. And we talk about the double bind of I must make more I can’t make more or I must relax in order to manifest more money. I can’t relax a high these bills that are really real and beginning to open up to a secret third, which doesn’t even mean coming to a clear answer, but beginning to put into practice ways that we can start to feel sensations of safety and resonance within our body and current time. Before the outside world says it’s possible. I wanted to also just share that Toko pa Turner in her book belonging on page 42 As this really beautiful definition or quote on plenty. And it says worth is really another way of saying plenty. It is the resting state of abundance. And I love that we’re talking about abundance. And I think throughout the podcast, you’ll hear these elements of self worth being tied into abundance and plenty.

3:08
On the topic of abundance

3:11
worth

3:13
plenty.

3:15
I wanted to say how much

3:18
I really love both in this conversation and in the program relaxed money. How much of that comes back to us working with our bodies and working with our nervous system. So for the last year, I have been working with relaxed money. Every month, I offer a nervous system practice for the group.

3:40
And in September when I was asked if I wanted to be an affiliate, I just noticed I had too much going on in my personal life and my nervous system to be able to share what I was so loving watching and what I was watching. What I was seeing, and I’ve been here for a year is people having these revelations, both of really practical ways to organize finances, as well as mindset shifts, and then working with the body so that we’re not trying to override something that feels scary or something that feels true to us that we get to work with the body and with our patterning. So I’ve heard people who will do nervous system, regulation work and then do taxes and then nervous system regulation work and I’ve heard of people who, as they change their state, they begin to see nuanced, more nuanced options and choices that they can make that they couldn’t see before.

4:42
So again, I’m loving what I’m hearing from the people in this program. I’m noticing that I myself have made changes in my own finances which have been incredible. And so I said heck yeah to being an affiliate partner for this time around. So if you want more there

5:00
is a free three day training that she offers called wide receiver, I find that she makes things so easy to integrate and take in. And I’ll leave a link for that and if you choose from that to buy the program itself, then I will offer you a free one on one with me. So without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Kate Northrup.

5:34
Welcome to threshold moments today we have with us Kate Northrup, this is the first time I’ve had someone on for the second time honored.

5:49
And it’s not because there’s a shortage of amazing people to talk to. But I feel like since we last talked so much has happened. And I also there’s a launch of a new program that I want to talk about. And I feel like this threshold that we would talk about would be about the threshold between scarcity and plenty. And I know you’ve told the story probably a number of times of the time in your life where you begin to switch your mindset from scarcity from like, I am responsible for creating content that will be supportive to my family supportive to all my employees. I am a mom, I am a wife and like feeling the stacking and layering and possibly looking for an external number two that could make you feel safe. And I’m wondering if you could speak to us about your process of shifting from the inside of you

6:46
before waiting for the outside? Uber’s? Really, totally no. I mean, this is great. This is all that matters. So what happened was I left Maine, sort of unexpectedly. And when we got to Florida in early 2021, my husband Mike became incredibly ill very fast with a repeat of an illness that he had been struggling with for the past two and a half, almost three years called Topical Steroid Withdrawal, T SW or, and also Steroid Withdrawal. It’s also called Redman syndrome. So if anybody has that or wants to look it up, you can check that out. It’s awful. And it’s somewhat mysterious, because it’s not like you go to the doctor, and there’s a diagnosis. And there’s a clear protocol. Like when you go to the doctor and you have this, they suggest that they’re going to prescribe steroids and it is infuriating. So it’s like the toxic loop of our medical system that was not helping us. And so there we were, we had moved to Miami somewhat unexpectedly to help my keel because of the weather and the humidity and was better for her skin. And we were paying for two lives. We had this full life in Maine. And then now we had another extra life in Miami, one of the most expensive cities in the country, and suddenly like private school tuition and did a lot of them a lot. And my husband was really sick. And I had a two and a half year old, almost three year old and a four year old somewhere in there. And then also our team. And you know, I was like primary parent, primary breadwinner, leading this company. And it just felt like too much. And I was in a loop and that loop that you mentioned, Sarah was okay, if Mike could just get better, and make money, everything would be fixed. So we had a session with our therapist, David, who’s very dramatically tuned in. And he also does a lot of internal family systems parts work. And David was like, okay, Kate, go inside, and close your eyes. And imagine that Mike has walked in the door, and he said, Babe, I just made $10 million. So now you do not need to work. In fact, we could close the business like whatever you want. And so I had expected a particular response to that information. But the response that I received from inside myself was shocking, which is that I instantly felt kind of flatlined, and depressed and dead inside. And I was disturbed by that. Because what it helped me to realize was that I had been operating using stress and pressure as a stimulant. And what I now know about the nervous system that I was learning at the time was that basically my nervous system was developed in an environment where it received the message. What it means to be alive is to feel a constant level of stress and pressure, like being alive means stress and pressure. And so I was finding any opportunity to manufacture stress and pressure and I didn’t even know I was doing it.

9:56
And I was in that moment project

10:00
Acting into this fantasy future that I thought would fix everything and realizing that actually, my body was addicted to the stress and the pressure. So I’m going to stop there. And I want to know from you what other layers are going on there in the nervous system? And then I’ll tell you what I did about it. Because what I did about it, isn’t that make more money? And also, Mike didn’t overnight make 10 million. That’s not what fix it.

10:29
I don’t see parts of your story where you’re like, oh, there’s a gap. She’s totally missing this piece of the story. I’m hearing it I’m like, wow, you hear that? So clearly, I imagine if I heard like, someone’s gonna make $10 million. I imagine that I would feel relaxed. And I’m gonna share this. I’m not sure I’ve shared this out loud before. When I started dating, Steve,

10:52
I always was looking at like, do I have any hidden agendas?

10:57
Is it attractive to me that he someday is going to be a dentist. And another part that actually showed up with like, I was scared shitless that if he became a dentist and was out earning me, then my work wouldn’t matter. And that I wouldn’t be able to do my work, I’m sorry, totally to switch from you to me, that I wouldn’t be able to do my work. Because if the amount of money I made with it didn’t make a difference, to our family’s well being, then my work no longer mattered. So I had an over coupling of the amount I make,

11:33
and my worth. And when I first heard your story, I also wondered if there was an over coupling of your worth,

11:42
and how much you make or produce or how successful you are. And if that is so a missing piece. And that’s been coming up in our relaxed money coaching sessions. And it’s been coming up everywhere. And so it’s so interesting that it’s coming up again, is because it’s something that I’m so aware of is happening with other people. And I don’t think I saw the thread that it was happening in this scenario. So in addition to, you know, kind of the nervous system soup that my body developed in, not only was it stress and pressure, you know, financially, but just like general stress and pressure, it was also a lot of stress and pressure around performance, specifically academic performance. And so I think that over coupling of our inherent worth with our earnings or with our performance, or with our achievement is something to really dial into. And it’s then LIKE IT system pattern. So thank you for saying that. I think that’s really profound. I knew there was going to be an added layer. So then I had this other coach because it takes a village and I was in this like, massive felt like a crazy financial contraction. I was like paying for these two lives. And then other than that, my husband said, oh, like contraction contraction contraction, it felt so Squeezy. But I had shared with her about the like flatlining with imagining that Mike had brought home, you know, a whole bunch of money. She suggested an exercise that I do like an experiment, we came up with it together. And she said, Okay, so what’s an amount of money that you would feel comfortable either going into your savings or going into the hole, like going into debt or credit line or whatever that you just know, because of past experience, and you know, your capability as a business owner that you could just make back if you needed to relatively quickly and I was like, Okay, I know that number. So I decided that I would either get to that amount of money of overspending like more than our income, or 90 days. So one or the other, whichever I hit first 90 days or this amount of money in the hole. And until that time, I was going to just practice what it would be like to relax, even though I didn’t have good evidence that it was a good time to do so. And why relax, what that meant for me was to not mount like a new marketing campaign to come up with more income, because that was always my old behavior. It was like, let me ramp up and get something going to create money, which I can totally do. And many entrepreneurs know how to do that. But it was from an originating point of stress and pressure, as opposed to from a place of like pleasure and joy and surrender and trust. So I was like, Okay, I’m not going to do that behavior. You know, I did a lot of like watching TV in the middle of the day and laying in bed crying. I had so much emotion that needed to be felt. So when I say relaxation, it wasn’t really a joyful time. I’ll be perfectly honest. It was like a really sad time.

14:42
And I would be interested to hear about that. What ended up happening in the 3d reality is that we didn’t go into the hole at all. We actually hit all of our financial goals and I didn’t have to like ramp up to do something extra. I just kept doing the things we had already agreed to do it.

15:00
You know, when delivering on what we had already decided to offer, and we made enough money, and it was a freaking revelation of like, wait a second, I didn’t have to ramp up. In order for this to happen, I didn’t have to clench a certain amount for there to be abundance, the abundance was there when I relaxed.

15:21
And then within that 90 days, Mike fell off his bike and broke his knee. So then he couldn’t walk also. And that was just like, Okay, great. So the stakes are now higher. You’re gonna relax now. And I was like, yes. Then 18 months later, something happened behind the scenes in my company where a lot of our team, the goddess basically came in and had heard a request to that I had had, and she just facilitated it happening in a way that felt really hard. So we had massive team changes going on, we were working with, like, basically, it was like me and Mike and one other part time person. And we were going to do this launch of our first round of relaxed money. And a week before we were starting promotion, Mike got hit by a car, while he was riding his bike, and had a massive traumatic fracture to the same knee he had broken 18 months before. So he had to have a week in the hospital, two surgeries, and he was on crutches for three months. Then again, it was like, so you’re gonna relax now?

16:29
And I was like, yes, yes, I am. And so we delayed the launch. Because, you know, our family was kind of like hanging on by a thread.

16:40
And it wasn’t like, we had all this extra where it was like, Oh, great, I can just delay this launch, you know, infinitely. And what we find, like, my company is the way that my family eats and that our team gets paid, there isn’t really plan B in our lives like, this is the plan, that relaxation, like required me to tap into something so much bigger than spreadsheets, and like emergency funds, and like really to tap into source with a capital S. And then in the end, that launch of relax money, the first time out of the gate was our biggest launch we’ve ever had, it blew my mind, it went so well. And it was so easy in flow. I was like checking behind my computer like what is.

17:31
And the only thing I can say is, money really responds to relaxation. I can imagine so many listeners go my experience is that money responds to hustle. And so what I imagine is that when you slow down, like we switch the word to slow down, instead of relaxed, love it.

17:55
Many people feel like they’re going to die.

17:59
I felt that way for like, if I go this slow, will I survive? Because the way I found success in the past was to be tenacious, was to just keep going. And there’s something probably like you said that my system gets addicted, like I can feel it during the day, if I’m, if I get into the mode of if I check off all these to dues, then I can relax, like I can still get into that mode. And I can feel it. And so to say that there’s a possibility of another way, is a great leap, that you don’t necessarily have a ton of proof. And the universe keeps giving you examples of actually, it’s less safe than you think. And

18:42
if I were to describe what I think happens in the nervous system, is that when we move from familiar to optimal,

18:52
it said this a few times on the podcast. So for some listeners, you’ve heard this before that all of our cells have receptor cells. And they’re all waiting for these ligands to make a connection and they called ligands ligands. Just I’m just taking notes. Yeah, this is the work of Candace PERT. She’s so amazing. She’s fascinating. Work is fascinating. So the images I get from this is like you learn how to salsa together like you you learn a specific dance that these two do together and went on a cellular level you decide to change. Now the emotional peptide, the Ligon has nothing to connect to and it feels like abandonment.

19:32
Right like you’re left dancing on the dance floor by yourself. And there is no one to say like, oh, this is the thing that generally makes you feel good. This is the connection that makes you feel good. And so there has to be a borrowing the term the tension field from biodynamic cranial sacral therapy, and I may slightly be misusing it, but this idea of hanging out in a field of a new possibility before a matching ligand meets you so literally like being the first person on the dance floor

20:00
We’re at a wedding, where you just have to, like awkwardly just be there until the one person joins and then the two people and then suddenly it’s a dance party, but it is uncomfortable. And so it takes resourcing. Right? So a definition of stress that I heard from Jerry Molitor is that stresses when we have more demands and resources, than when you’re going through something and you know, you’re going into a tension field, you know that you’re trying to do a new pattern, then you’re gonna want to say like, what resources do I have? So this time, Mike is out. You have more demands with your kids. And you could see that you have more demands with work, but you’re now looking at like, well, I have this therapist, I am doing this nervous system work, I am utilizing these things to help me at a time where I feel like I might die if I try this new pattern. Because when people talk about like, I changed on a cellular level.

20:55
You didn’t I did you did you literally your cells shifted. And then you’re waiting for your chemistry. You’re going through withdrawal, and your ministry to meet it. Oh my god. So true. Yeah, I’m just over here, like, copious notes, because that’s exactly what it felt like. And when you set the resourcing piece, so one of my main regulation practices and practices of resourcing is communing with nature. And at the time, I was living on the 41st floor of a high rise. And so I didn’t feel like amongst a lot of other tall buildings, in like streets where there was a lot of trash, and coming from a fairly woodsy area in Maine, like it just felt like sort of an assault on my system. And when I would do like a grounding meditation, you know, it’s like, drop the grounding cord. And I could just sort of like feel my grounding cord, like dangling around the 20th floor, like it couldn’t make it all the way down. So what I would do, even if I only had 10 minutes, I would go downstairs, which took forever in the elevator, and I would walk out to the waterfront, which had this kind of like, you know, sidewalk along it, and I would just sit on the water wall thing, and just look at the ocean and

22:17
allow my body to receive the energy of the ocean. And I know that that’s probably for some people, they’re like, how do you do that. And for me, it’s a little hard to describe. So maybe you have better language for it. But it’s literally just kind of like a tuning my energy to the ocean. It’s like I’m feeling the oceans frequency. And then just like letting it come into my body. It reminds me a little bit of the exercise we did with your mastermind, when we asked the outside person in a partnership to resource from something greater than themselves. So that when you’re a mother or you’re a business person, if you’re pulling from your own well, all the time that it could feel like too much. So we practiced we were also looking at the ocean, then could we look at the ocean? And could we start to attune to the ocean and imagine her energy as this Wellspring as we sit and listen to this person’s story not to heal them not to just like, could we be resource from another place, instead of thinking that we’re the battery for somebody else. And another thing that might be helpful for listeners is that oftentimes, when we look out to nature, what happens is that our head moves back in space. So if you imagine like, the back side of your ears, not the behind part, but the furthest back, that serves to move back, and our gaze starts to go more peripheral. And when that happens, our breath pattern changes, it becomes more

23:44
spread throughout the entire body, the front back up, down, and the nervous system then thinks it’s safe.

23:52
When we’re like fleeing something we get, like more directed, our head goes forward. And when we look at the setting sun, when we look at a mountain range, our head shifts back our breath pattern changes without trying to and we start to attune to the pace of nature, because our body is nature. Our body gets in tune with itself. Hmm.

24:16
It just makes me want to cry.

24:20
Yeah, so that’s what I did. I mean, that’s the most practical thing I can say I would do I would just and then I would also just ask the ocean if she had anything to tell me. And then I would listen. And I don’t really remember exactly like what the messages were but they were often marketing questions.

24:39
Constantly go sort of ask Mother Nature, what she thought I should do about like our various marketing strategies. And it was very clarifying. So that’s kind of how I shifted on a cellular level, the very way you described, but I want to go back to that part where we feel like we’re gonna die when we change it.

25:00
pattern. Yeah, I remember our mutual friend Eliza, who’s been on the podcast and her episode was wonderful. She one day called me on FaceTime just checking in, and I was really in it. And I was just like, Everything felt so sad. I was just in a lot of grief, and I couldn’t stop crying. And she was like, it makes sense that you are crying because there’s a part of you that’s dying, and you’re just doing such a beautiful job dying. She just sat on FaceTime with me while I cried, and we just kind of cried together. And there were so many layers for me, at that time around identity and moving from this small town where I’d grown up and family stuff, it really was like a certainly an ego death then also just did a dying of old ways. And it was like it was really painful. So put so worth it. Because when we do that, when we go out in the field, and wait, while we feel like we’re gonna die for the new ligand to show up, like, love. Oh, good. Now that a molecule of emotion, yes. Anyone really like hold on to what the ligand is? Yeah, exactly. And what happens is like, I do this thing, when I’m trying something new, or like wanting to do something that makes me uncomfortable, that requires a new part of myself, whether it’s, you know, sitting down to work on my book proposal, or, you know, yesterday, I was doing an arm workout, it’s what you teach about titration. Okay, like, I can stay three more minutes. And then after that, if I want to check my phone, I can do that. If I want to just like not do the last set, I can do that. Inevitably, for me, usually, after three minutes, I’m like, Well, I can stay for five minutes, or maybe sometimes I don’t. And so that ability, like it doesn’t have to be you know, you come from like a hardcore athletics background, I come from this, like, really intense academic background. And then we both have all this achievement stuff. And so it’s really like, what we were taught, or what I was taught is that you just have to push through and have grit. And so I want to highlight that standing in the field, changing the pattern, feeling like you’re going to die is not the same thing as pushing past your comfort zone and just overpowering your boundaries to change. It’s actually for me, it’s like doing small, doable parts. So it was like, you know, during that time of my life, I also felt really angry. So I felt a lot of sadness, I felt a lot of grief. So it was like, Okay, I feel so angry right now I can just go in the closet, and for 30 seconds, scream into a pillow.

27:41
I don’t have to do anything more than that. Just something to relieve the energy to move through an emotional stress loop, whatever it is. So that that feeling of I’m gonna die. It’s not like we have to stay there forever. Like, we can stay there a little bit, and then go find comfort or resourcing or whatever, right? Yeah. And so I’m really loving that you brought up titration because our conversation could have sounded very all or nothing. Leave the familiar you must leave what feels safe and go die in the field until was born. Sounds awful? I yourself? Yeah, it doesn’t have to and like titration is this idea of Bridgette would say like, I don’t know that she would say this definition of titration. But she often says small doable pieces over time. And the idea of Pendulo ation, which I’m gonna say always I try not to use always but very often use in somatic work is first we’ll find health. It let’s look for any piece of health, anything. And I think you have this in one of your nervous system support programs on relax money. Look for any part in your body that feels like stability, any part that finest feels like health, and then we might pendulum to something that’s challenging. And we would put it in the company of health. It’s not necessarily doesn’t have to be a death in the middle of the field by yourself. point of getting resources would be that you were on the phone with Eliza. Yeah. So there’s this idea of creating conditions so that as the charge gets bigger

29:15
than we can, we’re able to stay with that higher charge when we’ve created more conditions in our life. And the conditions include pause they include welcoming your anger and your grief. They include healthy friendships, boundaries and right relations. So there’s a whole slew of things that falls under creating conditions.

29:39
And on the other part of that three directions math if we weren’t able to complete that whole loop where we were out on the field, we have enough resources we get to the new way of being in between we get to soothe and distract, you know, like us. We can jump on the phone we can maybe get out one more email than we thought we were going to. Like it gives a little bit of that old self like okay, I won’t like

30:00
scare you all the way. So we get to do it all the time and somebody on one of the relaxed money calls. So everyone listening, once a month I go on and I support the program. And we do a nervous system support portion, and it’s an hour long. And at the end, they get to ask questions. And somebody asked the question, they were like, really amazed of how I don’t remember the example. But it was a public example you gave of just saying like no to this really big deal. And like choosing something else. I just, you know, for them, it felt like I just don’t know if I can do that. Like, I don’t know.

30:34
I’m even saying like, Oh, is this okay for whoever’s the share is just the fade out much. And my response was that

30:43
whenever you made that decision, whatever it was,

30:46
there had been so many layers and times of practice before that.

30:51
And although we have practice doing hard things, life generally gives us opportunities, where they’re like, Oh, great job, try this next one. But we’ve learned a bit more how to resource ourselves while we’re doing those hard things. So it’s not that it’s easy. And so some of them are these quantum leap moments, but often, because we’ve done so many small steps along the way. Yeah, yeah, that’s so much. Okay. There’s a couple of layers there that I want to share. And it has to do with community. And then I have a couple of questions to ask you about how you lead those sessions and relaxed money. So I want you to say those layers, before you say the layers, I want to highlight something that I don’t want to get missed. And so far, what has happened so far is that Kate has outlined that in real time in the 3d world, there are real things that feel like they could be threatening or are threatening or pressures. So I think often from the outside, one could look and not because you’re not real on your Instagram account, I think you do a great job of showing yourself. And somebody could look and go like, Well, that’s nice, because x, y and z like because she can because XY and Z and so easily and assume

32:11
that nothing was real. And so what I do want listeners to hear is like, there was a lot real, there were a lot of real things going on.

32:21
When you started making the small doable changes, like some of them were big leap, and some of them are small, doable changes, to say, I’m going to try on this new way of being I want to see what’s possible. So I just want listener to hear that. If you’re listening, and you’re like, Well, that’s nice, but I had rent to pay. It’s also not that Kate’s path is the same path for you. But it can be the inquiry of are there any area that I can relax, and then maybe he can even say a little bit about her program after this. And we changed the word for a second from relaxed. And Eliza, she’ll say layers of comfort.

32:58
Layers of comfort, kind of works in this and kind of doesn’t. But well, I think I even think about like this one pair of overalls that I wore like almost every day.

33:10
And the way in which like they really were comforting on my body. And I hadn’t worn overalls regularly since I was 12. And there was something about these overalls that were like, really essential. Yeah, in terms of like a physical feeling of layers of comfort. So it was because I was thinking when you’re breaking a habit, it’s not, we’re not looking for the comfort. But we are then creating a resource of comfort wills in the situation, right, like wearing a pair of overalls, which is definitely not doing any harm to anybody or anything or myself. Right. So, so beautiful. Okay, so I definitely want to get to double buying snacks. So but I just want to say about that particular instance, because I’m sure that folks listening, have these desires to like, expand and go for bigger things and have, you know, a life that continues to get even more beautiful and more luxurious, right? And so at that particular time when I said no, it was a big speaking gig with like some of my most favorite authors and really fancy people who would be like a dream to be on a headline thingy with but it was just like far away. And I was nursing and it was like If I say yes to this, I will be sacrificing things that are more important. Like my physical health and my my kids. And Mike was so sick at the time. That was this was the first time he was sick. And I was just like, My family doesn’t have the resources to actually handle this. Yes. So I said no. And then in the end, I ended up getting invited on a really big podcast that was happening at the time, I would have been at that speaking gig. That definitely reached way more people than I would have at this speaking gig because it’s like virtual and it’s like hundreds of 1000s of people and it took an hour and I could do it. So that was just a perfect example of like, it’s okay to say no to the big shiny thing. It doesn’t mean that that was the only opportunity

35:00
Like there’s an infinite number of opportunities, and they’re just gonna keep coming. And that’s one of the ways I tap into plenty is just really knowing that truth. But in terms of community, and being able to resource from what’s possible for other people, I grew up in a household with a mom who has a very similar career or had, you know, to what I do, and I saw her, say no to fancy stuff, and I saw her not die. And I saw her prioritize our well being and her well being and not get caught up in the FOMO of like, I have to chase every little thing. I talk a lot about unhealthy nervous system imprints, and I wanted to highlight that the nervous system receives information about things that are threats and things that are really beautiful. And so that’s a nervous system imprint, I have a feeling of safety and trust that like we don’t have to chase the shiny object, stuff will come to us in right timing. And that’s why it’s so important to spend time in healthy community, healthy, safe community, you know, like the things that you offer, like relaxed money, like other things that are around so that we can co regulate and get new, healthier nervous system imprints from other people who are having a lived reality of what we desire, because by being around them, our nervous system recognizes like, a that’s possible and be it safe, because look, they’re right here, and our bodies don’t believe the lie of separation, they actually know that we are always in the same motion, our mirror neurons can tell the difference between if it’s happening to Sarah, or if it’s happening to me. And so the lie of separation tells us that like, oh, must be nice for you. And the truth of our unity. And our deep, deep connection will say like, oh, because that’s happening for her on some level that actually is happening for me. And when we embrace it that way, we actually do heal our nervous systems and upgrade their settings. So what I would offer to listeners here, if that still feels impossible in any way, like we looked at something and said, like, I hear that, but I still feel like she could do that because she has this degree or because she has this or that I would offer the May I show me the reticular activation tool right here to say, of course, like what you’re saying is like the community is offering that vision of someone said, like, show me what it looks like to have trust in the universe to know that I’m not the only one trying to get this program done, show me that I can lean into something greater than myself. And then I feel like when somebody sees you doing it or see someone else doing it, it feels like proof of the question they asked. And if we ever look at someone and say, well, they can do that, because of XY and Z, I might say, I really love what they have.

37:56
Show me and what way that’s possible for me, show me how it aligns with me, you know, not just like, I don’t want to become them, but like, how does that align with me? And what will my path be there? Show me my path. And then in that way, we stop saying like, well, they can do that, because they were a D, one athlete. So they have the tenacity, they can do that. Because they went to an Ivy League school, we could start saying, cool, they did that and they have these things. Show me my way. There, it’ll be my way and you might be there. And that way, we can kind of take the comparison out a little bit and keep the inspiration and keep the curiosity and then the brain will actually start seeing what it was missing before. Ah,

38:38
good.

38:39
Oh, good. I actually kind of wanted to ask you this. This month, I want to do a podcast on double binds and sacred thirds. And so if I were to describe to you a double bind, it would be I must, I can’t, I must make more money, I can’t make more money and there can be a whole story behind it. I must relax, I can’t relax, right? Like yours might be like, I must relax in order to heal my nervous system in order to be magnetic for money. I can’t relax, my husband is super sick. I’m a mom of two I need to pay the bills. So a double bind IS I MUST I can’t. And the sacred third is when we begin to look at the nuance of the two so if you’re listening I have my two fists together. And I’ll do a whole podcast on this and we’ll do one with like parenting and finances and we made this reservation to go out to dinner we let go have our child care help our friends at like we’ll take your kids my older one was like I’m not going and a whole panic panic ensued and she really wants to go to dinner without them or like we like we hadn’t seen these people in five years. It was a super fancy place there were only four seats there was no room for a fifth seat. It was not a kid’s please. But eventually like when I look at the moss I can’t like we must go to dinner. I can’t go to dinner now because she can’t like and back and forth. I was like you know what? Sure if you want to split a seat with Dad and I and my youngest

40:00
One went to go play with her friends next door. And I don’t know if this makes sense. But as we looked at it, it wasn’t like, No, you absolutely can’t come to dinner because I kid, you the thing is you open up one hand and you look at it like, okay, she can’t come to dinner, but she can’t stay here. I must like, and you keep looking back and forth. And it’s like, Can she really not come to dinner? Right? Under what conditions would it be okay? And so it was like, great, like, if you’re willing to, like, bring your coloring pad and pencils, and know that it’s going to be possibly not, and she was just like, it was so relaxing for her to sit in between. Even I like that base. And as soon as she had that option, her whole body relaxed, Steve and I got to do what we wanted to do. Like every one, it was a win win win. And so one of the primary things in alchemic alignment is that we’d love for situations come out to a win win. And so when we look at a double bind, and we start looking at nuances, sometimes there’s a secret there the middle that seems impossible when you’re stressed over the two. Yes. So I think you kind of described it already. But I’m wondering if you can think of something from relaxed money, like an example and relaxed money, where there’s a double bind, and how relaxed money might help you find a secret? Yeah, okay, love this. So one of the things that you taught me is that when we’re in either or thinking we are in a trauma response, so when we’re in a double bind, we can know like, Oh, we’re dysregulated, there is a part of me that feels a threat. And now I’m outside my range of resonance, my range of capacity. And so just knowing that really helps, because

41:37
it’s incredibly rare, that there’s actually only two options, you know, like, it just really is like, we can always find a way. And so nuance requires regulation.

41:51
And what I know is that when we are dysregulated, when we are sensing a threat, there’s less cerebrospinal fluid that flows from our bodies to our brain, there’s less oxygen that flows to our brain, the left and right hemispheres are not talking to each other. And we’re literally just accessing less of our capability for problem solving or seeing possibility. You know, our literal peripheral vision shortens, narrows, and so also does our energetic peripheral vision or our ability to see possibility. So also at that part, I didn’t tell this story, my doctor, I just had my bloodwork done, and my doctor basically was like, based on your hormonal panel, your brakes are broken. And also, so is your gas. And if you keep going like this, you’re gonna get really sick. And so I was also like, Okay, I must take care of my body, because my children cannot have two sick parents. Because then like, we’re totally effed. So it really did feel like I must slow down, I can’t, because I have to make money for the family. And so what the mindset world would have us do is change our thoughts. But the thing is, when our bodies are in a sympathetic response, and they feel unsafe, a better feeling thought is generally not available. Or if we can’t even think of it, it feels like a lie. And our bodies know we’re lying. And so it just doesn’t work. Like you cannot think your way out of a way that your body feels. And so in relaxed money, we practice first of all, we learn all the anatomy of the nervous system, how to know when you’re dysregulated, and many, many different ways to find yourself back in a sense of safety and how to plug into source with a capital S, which is what you describe with resourcing layers of comfort, pendulum motion titration. All of these things are ways that we can plug into source with a capital S. And our best bet for doing that is accessing our embodiment, like getting into our bodies connecting with nature, which is the truth of who we are. I don’t remember what you said. But you said something really great about when we look at nature, we come back home to ourselves or something like that, because we are nature. Our nervous system is an entire network of nerves that goes through our entire body. It includes the brain, our nervous system speaks any electricity, the communication between all the neurons, all the synapses in the brain, everything it’s electric, our entire bodies are running on electricity, if somebody flatlines how do we bring them back to life? We shock them with what electricity it is all energetic that electricity has a frequency, you know, ACDC that was like not actually originated. It did not originate as a band. It originated because it’s two different kinds of electrical current. And there’s way more than two different kinds but that’s just an example that you learn like

45:00
I don’t know, in eighth grade or something, when we understand that our bodies are running on electricity, it becomes a lot easier to understand that dysregulation is a frequency and regulation is a frequency. And back to the double binds, when we’re in a frequency of dysregulation, and fear. And our nervous system is dysregulated. And we’re in I must, I can’t, we’re in like, either or, We’re not like our radio is not turned to the channel of possibility. And we cannot just decide, so a lot of people in my field will be like, just change the channel. And I’m like, No, you can’t do that with your mind. What you can do with your body, your body is what changes the channel, because your body is like a massive radio receiver. It’s like an antenna. And so that’s where we can get into and it sounds like even just the act. And I don’t know if you actually did this in the moment, but it was a great metaphor, even just the act of opening upon, could be a way to find another possibility. Because it’s just representing openness, it could be swaying back and forth, it can be you taught me lower backward breathing mean, there’s a million different ways to access safety. But the name of the game is, if I’m in a double bind, I just don’t feel safe. And so I need to find a way to signal to my body that I’m safe. And then trust that an idea will come through that actually is that sacred flirt, that is a win, win, win, win, win, win win. I’m loving us for so many reasons. One is that you didn’t give us your actual like, you didn’t say like so this was the sacred third, what you said instead, and you did you like didn’t and you did, and what I feel like what you said instead, and highlighted, which feels so important and so much more beautiful than saying so this is the third way out like this is was

46:58
just talking about the importance of coming back to your body, which can be hard when you’re dysregulated. So in the three directions map to bring that map up one more time, which we went over with your group in December. Double binds is the second direction, it’s looping.

47:13
And so as we create conditions, which we can do slowly over time, then new ways of being and so it sounds like you didn’t just have like, well, then I’m going to do this with my business. And this will be my secret third where my body and my bad actually, it was a slow process of a lot of subtle changes of being with your body and going out and looking to the ocean. So I love that because instead of someone listening to this and thinking like, okay, must find this like a sacred third. Now, it’s the permission to know that it could happen slowly over time, and that the process may not be an idea that you can come up with right away. The other thing you said was so brilliant. It’s Bridget who does the fists. And sometimes when I’m trying to come up with examples, I do it with my hands. And I used to teach a lot of emotional anatomy. And I remember I would have my students make fists with their hands and then flex their wrists. And watch what happened to their breath. Hmm, just by having the fists close, it does actually change our state a little bit. And by opening the palm, as you said, I’m not sure I realized that like as Bridgette did it I just realized that like helped my brain think differently. And I’m like, oh, yeah, there is actually a physiological response to opening a palm. And then to open the other palm. Do you think about the there’s so much reason why we pray in certain ways we do certain movements, it actually every single movement changes our physiology. And so what she’ll do, as she’s thinking about is like, she’ll have all those statements like this is true, although or and, and you start kind of Yeah, like swaying back and forth until you just see, like you said, so many options. And I loved also what you said something about, like,

48:52
Nuance requires resonance. Yes. Same chin. Yeah. Yeah. So beautiful. It’s here, it’s on a different radio station. And I also love that because I’ve heard so much about, like, just tune your radio station. And that that gets to be a practice over time of changing within our bodies. The end of that three direction map is that the thing that activated you at the beginning can become extinct. It could happen and you’re like, Oh, I thought I feel that pattern and and it’s okay if like it’s a lifetime thing. But a lot of times, you forget that that was even a thing. Like when you’re now listening to a new radio station, and you forget that you ever tuned in to this other belief system or other way of being? Because the thing that seemed impossible feels true. And the one more thing I want to say about that is that the earlier on the timeline, a certain reality was presented as true, the more impossible, a new way can feel, which is the beauty of asking and looking for examples where someone’s survived a new way and just feeling like Oh, I’m talking we’re doing

49:59
right

50:00
You, okay, so I’m so glad you are. Because for those listening, like, I want them to know, the depth of knowledge and transmission that actually happens within relaxed money, not only from the modules that I teach, but also from you being part of the program, I took three pages of notes as we were.

50:23
Because I learned so much from you about our physiology, about our energetics about the nervous system. And so having that within our program, and within our community is such an incredible gift. Because I do think that we can practice things. It’s like one thing to practice things experientially, but for myself, and I think for our students, there’s such a deep

50:49
gift in also understanding why it’s working. Like I think it works better to practice it when we understand why at least to some degree. And so I really appreciate how you bring it in and how you educate on that. Because, you know, it’s one thing to just like, teach a practice. But it’s another thing to really understand in depth, why it works. And I think it helps it to land much more deeply. So I’m really grateful for that. And I’m grateful for everything that you share today is so, so interesting and amazing helped me understand life better. Yeah. And so what I’d love to say for listeners now, too, is that

51:27
I had hit on because I wanted to talk about this threshold, because it’s been such a huge thing. And I see her thriving, and the card that I pulled for our talk was after the storm. And it’s this owl and I can think of an owl as like, why is and one that has great vision can see like really far and big, but also like really specific and it’s holding up, I forget what this is at the Macabeu ah, oh, yeah, it’s like a sign that I often see when my eyes are closed. But

51:55
I think, you know, something that I can highlight is being able to,

52:00
like, watch you in real life, the joy that you have the friendships, you’ve created, the way in which you really like you and Mike, like actually sit down every Friday, going to like Easter,

52:14
every Friday and really talk about the things and what we haven’t talked about too much here yet, is there’s so much practical monetary ideas to because you have been running a business for over 20 years now, I was gonna say 10, but no wasted money, for sure. It’s sort of 22. So you’re really good at this and money. And the practical. And it used to be your first book was like the practical and mindset. And now I feel like there’s cyclical living and nervous system included. And so I am now an affiliate for this program. And I was wondering, I wanted to come on. So you could hear from Kate. And the reason the only reason why I said yes to this is because I’ve gotten to be in the program now for six or seven months. So I get to see how engaged the participants are, and how many changes they’re making and how authentic they are and how dedicated they are. And like you said, When you surround yourself with other people doing the work, and the community conversation, where I’m like, this is something I can really get on board with and also that I’m you know, I actually am on board because because I meet with everyone once a month, and it’s so great. This program is the most holistic financial healing program in existence because it combines the nervous system aspects, the energetics, the spiritual, the beliefs, the emotions, the mindset, and the practical and not just the practical from the perspective of like, here’s how to manage your cash flow. By the way, we have an amazing system for that. But also like here’s how to make more money. And here’s how to make more money in ways that aren’t trading hours for dollars. And here’s how to actually get that money working for you. So it’s like really meets you on all the possible levels of healing not it’s not just a personal finance course. It’s not just a nervous system healing. It’s not just a money mindset or just a money energetics. A lot of what I see out there is just one of those things. Listen, any of those ingredients are phenomenal. But putting them all together really accelerates growth or deepens the growth. And so it’s I teach it over 13 Live modules. I think there’s a real benefit of being live they are obviously also on replay. But if folks can be in that container live, even if they’re listening to the replays, there’s something about the CO regulation and being able to attune your nervous system to the nervous system of the group collective and being in this environment where everyone is committed to safety first and then also expansion and then I have tone in my system, which is that I know absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt

55:00
that anybody can create anything they want. And no one could convince me otherwise about themselves. And so being in space with someone who knows that about you, is powerful. It’s like the content, and then also that, and then you offer monthly nervous system, healing and practice calls. And then I do monthly group coaching as well. And then and so that happens during the whole year if people choose to participate in that. And I am doing a free three day workshop called wide receiver for people who want to step into the work and get those first steps going to take their financial healing to the next level. So if you are financial avoider, if you are just really wanting to uplevel, you know, our ideal student is someone who wants the degree to which they feel powerful on the inside with money to match the degree to which they appear powerful with money on the outside, so that the inner begins to match the outer. And so yeah, so I would love to meet any of your people. And I’m sure you’ll have your link in the show notes. Yeah, I’ll have a link in the show notes, I wanted to add this, which is, I haven’t missed one of your three day calls yet. And the way that I see this, whether it’s that you get monthly calls, once you’re in the program, or you just listen to the three day call that kids come to do, which is free, just like this podcast is free, like you can just do this portion, saying like, if you have the ability to do the three day the reason why I do it over and over again, it reminds me of the reason why someone might go to church every Sunday, you’re not hearing a new story, like every Sunday, they don’t start reading a new book, like you’re hearing the same story. But you’re like, going to hear it from a slightly different angle, you’re a slightly different person. It’s like the idea of stepping into a river. And it’s never quite the same. But it’s this layering for me of repetition of putting myself in a place where a new possibility is being shown. And so I always log on. Plus, I think you’re an awesome presenter and like, way, like sometimes I think it’s very hard to describe nervous system stuff. And the way that you describe things. Sometimes I’m like, wow, that was incredible. And so some states, that’s Wow. So I just think you’re really easy to learn from and I love like I almost came to tears when you talked about the way that you hold a tonne of what you believe as possible. You’ve done that for me. And so of course you’re looking at me as we’re doing this and you’re talking about everybody like she does, it’s true.

57:36
The link will be here if you sign up for it. And if you end up signing up through my link, I’m offering to private, so amazing, signing up for relaxed money. After the free three through my link, I will add to private. So if you think about having the monthly support from Kate and for me, and then at some point along the line, if you’re feeling like something is a little unsure, and you’d like some extra support that we could go in for one on one. Love that. Thanks, Sara. Thank you. Thanks for coming on.

58:10
And thank you all for listening. I’ll end with a May i

58:15
Hmm. When I noticed myself going into an either or an all or nothing.

58:24
I must I can’t May I just recognize my state.

58:29
May I remember that there is most likely a myriad of ways.

58:36
And when they’re not directly available, may I be open to the next right step, the smallest doable piece. And may that be enough.

58:46
May I surround myself with people who inspire me

58:52
who show me what is possible

58:55
through lived experience.

59:00
Me I remember that I am nature

59:03
that every time I come into resonance with nature, I get to feel more at home. More of a sense of self and plenty.

59:14
Thank you

59:25
Thank you for tuning in. It’s been such a pleasure. If you’re looking for added support, I’m offering a program that’s totally free called 21 days of untapped support. It’s pretty awesome. It’s very easy. It’s very helpful. You can find it at Sarah tacey.com If you love this episode, please subscribe and like apparently it’s wildly useful. So we can just explore what happens when you scroll down to the bottom subscribe rate, maybe say a thing or two. If you’re not

1:00:00
not feeling it don’t do it it’s totally fine I look forward to gathering with you again thank you so much