025 – Tracy Levy: Healing Through Heartbreak

[0:00] Music.

[0:08] I’m Sarah Tacy and this is Threshold Moments, a podcast where guests and I share stories, about the process of updating into truer versions of ourselves.
The path is unknown and the pull feels real. Together we share our grief, laughter, love, and life-saving tools.

[0:27] Music.

[0:38] This interview was the second interview that I did in preparing for this podcast.
It’s with a beloved friend, Tracy Levy, while she was in the middle of the dark night of, her soul.
There is a part of me that’s super insecure about launching this podcast because I cut into her conversation and into her story multiple times.
And part of that cutting in was to give context. Part of it was also to hold another perspective so that we have one being the perspective of the woman who was left, the woman who is there to now find herself, return to herself, the woman who imagined her life one way, who will now be in the process of reconfiguring it to figure out who am I now, what does my life look like now, where is my choice, where my options.

[1:49] On the other side are the people who accompany those through their hardest moments.
And when one is in their hardest moment, two things can present.
One might be that they completely shut off to the rest of the world and they go into a cave.
And another thing that is possible is that they reach out, and that the reaching out might feel a lot to those who are listening or holding in because you enter the cycle and the rumination and the confusion.

[2:25] And so what I wanted to share was what it might look like as an outside person, as a person accompanying the person in their dark night, of how can we accompany in a way in which we don’t lose ourselves, in a way that doesn’t drain us.
Going back to the idea that stability is when we have more resources than demands, when we’re in the dark night, the demands are so much more than the resources.
So there is a lack of stability, and that’s important because in the lack of stability is where we begin to shake up and loosen off and shake off that which no longer serves us.
That instability is important for those around us. when they say, oh, they think I’m too much, I’m too much, that it’s actually just, oh, the people on the outside might only have so much capacity because their own lives are also holding a lot.
And so in this podcast, I’m presenting both Tracy, Tracy presenting herself so generously with such freaking wisdom.

[3:32] Incredible, incredible to be able to speak from the middle. And then I present what it might be some tools or approaches of being that person accompanying and also recommending that you’re not the only one accompanying.

[3:48] What Tracy and I later spoke about was that we did not mention that at somewhere in the middle, somewhere kind of during an emotional relapse, she was also seeing a therapist and a psychiatrist a psychiatrist and did get help with medication.

[4:05] And we wanted, we both wanted to share this just when we talk about layers of support and how profound her work was with me was to also be clear that it wasn’t the only thing and that in this wellness world, we are not saying that the Western way or that medicine is not also useful.
We wanna say that in this situation, It was an added tool that helped her get her feet on the ground enough that she could do the other work.
And as an update, I might also say that now, this is over six months since she and I recorded, she has recently also worked her way off of those medications so that it’s possible to go on when needed and to really mindfully with the help of professionals work her way off that was appropriate for her.
So we didn’t mention that at all in the podcast and we both talked about it afterwards saying, hey, this could be really useful for somebody in the middle, who is really drowning and who is doing all the things that they’re thinking they should do and could really use another layer of support.

[5:13] This is a longer podcast than some of the others, so maybe you break it up and listen to it over time, but I do believe it is such an important one. And again, the generosity that Tracy offers us to share with us from the middle, to share with us from the vulnerability, from the pain, from the grief, from the insight, from the revelation, from the moments of joy, such a gift. So without further ado, here is Tracy Levy.

[5:43] Music.

[5:53] I’m here with Tracy Levy and Tracy is a teacher, a guide, a writer. I first met at Tracy in Connecticut at her then yoga studio, Saraswati’s.
And Tracy for me was my grounding when my life felt like it was so overwhelming.
I was working 80 hours a week at a job I absolutely loved, but I needed a peace, like a place to return to myself, to remember myself.
And your class was my medicine, being with you.

[6:35] You, or it’s like, it’s your voice, it’s your presence, it’s the love you bring.
And of course, uh, Tracy is a highly intelligent person as well.
And so her sequencing and her poetry and the way she weaves it all together was just, I had to be there.
I think it was the eight o’clock class Tuesday and or Thursday.
And that one thing was just like this anchor point for me. And between then and now, I have, let’s see, there was Blue Streak, then I moved to New York for seven years, and I saw you sometimes for trainings up at your studio.
And then I moved to Maine, and the funniest thing happened, which is that it turns out the very first person who I came in contact with was Janelle Houston, who owned Lila.
And I was there for one day, we had 24 hours to figure out, would we move from New York where my yoga therapeutics business was that I had grown over a seven year period?
My brother was, and my husband’s family was, would we move to Portland, Maine, where we didn’t know anybody or stay in New York?
And I walked in to Janelle’s studio just by like a flip of a coin.

[7:49] And well, first of all, a woman who played lacrosse with me, like, Tacey. What?
So I hadn’t seen since college was in there and the studio felt just like Saraswati’s and I was like, this feels so familiar, the brick walls, the old wood, the floors, and then Janelle started speaking a language that was also familiar, but there was also a new verbiage because it was like the beginnings of Bow Spring.
And afterwards I was like, um, where did that language come from?
She’s like, I was just in Connecticut. And I was like, oh, we know the same people.
And it turns out that four of my five closest friends in Maine have their own stories of connection with you, like deep connection.
One of them lived with you, right? Taylor, did Taylor live with you?
Liz was my student when I taught English in high school. Wild. Wild. Yeah. Wild.
So then Tracy began visiting in Maine, which just feels like someday she’ll probably live here.
Definitely. Happening. I’m manifesting that right now. Yeah, it’s happening. It’s already done. Done from there.
Mm.

[9:06] And this, this interview, this conversation, this connection for tonight or for today, whenever people are listening is based around, I mean, it can be based on anything, but I heard you say, as we were talking at the beginning, you said this is about healing and the podcast is called Threshold Moments, which are moments in life where what once was our normal no longer works.
And sometimes it’s decisions we make, and sometimes it’s something that pulls us.
And sometimes it’s something that happens. It feels like it happens to us.
And sometimes it feels like when it happens to us, that there’s not a lot of choice.

[9:50] And I’m wondering if you’re willing to tell us a little bit, only like the amount that you’re comfortable with, of your threshold moment, if you want.
And, or we could start where, when you came to Maine, whatever point on the timeline that feels like a good starting point.
I just wanted to say thank you first and foremost, just to kind of honor this connection and, you know, just the deepest gratitude, like dripping with gratitude for this conversation, and specifically this conversation with you and for others to do that together.
So the first, like, thank you.
And thank you to whoever’s listening. And I’m compelled to start slightly ahead of the reason that the summer I went to Maine.

Tracy’s threshold moment: Husband’s sudden decision for divorce

[10:45] In April of this year, so six months ago, my husband of 15 years woke up, or I woke him up, or in the morning, and he told me that he was done.

[11:02] And that alone would have been devastating. But our marriage, as I understood it, didn’t behave as a marriage that was done.

[11:14] And yet, the days and weeks prior, I had a feeling that something was happening, was going to happen.
And there was an extreme sense of that I wasn’t, that my ground was shaking.
And, and by the time I put two and two together, that was when, when I refer to, I woke my husband up, it was that I had a sense that he was disconnecting.
And it was a question that I was so afraid to ask him.
There was an answer that I in the moment didn’t believe was going to be the answer.
And so he, in April, said he was done, which meant he wanted a divorce.
And there was no conversation about working on it or repairing it.
It was very clear that for him, it was done, it was over.

[12:12] And then that was like the pivotal moment of like, for me, the unfathomable. You know why?
Because in my mind and understanding of our marriage, I loved him with like every ounce of my body.
And the moment he told me like one of the first things that I, you know, there’s so many things that went through my mind and one was like, it’s not over, you know, just sort of denial and couldn’t organize around the reality of that it was over, we were over.

[12:46] You don’t immediately just like embrace that as an acceptance when you have convinced yourself that this is the person you’re going to grow old with, but that this is the person that we will move through these phases of middle age together.
And so the first response was, I’m going to be 52 this year.
So it was, you’re doing this now, now in my 50s where I’m through menopause and we’re here to, we have our children are grown and this is now, like when my parents will probably be not alive in the next decade, God willing, maybe they will, they’re in their mid 80s.
This is now. This is what I’m now going to be alone doing.
And aside from the fact that every part of me didn’t want that outcome, like every single part of me didn’t want him to go. And it was so jarring. And so jarring for so many reasons, jarring that I didn’t even know that he was that far along is another narrative. But jarring in that the immediate experience I had in my body was I’m not going to be okay. I’m not okay. And I’m I’m not going to be OK, and I’m not going to get through this.

[14:06] And I’m not going to survive this.
And I was Googling, can you die of heartbreak, and just realizing I had no sense of how I was going to get through this. Just leveled, leveled.
And the only resuscitation, the only things where my head was slightly barely able to breathe from this crowning life that now is mine, handed to me, was just this message of I have to ask for help. That was weird because it wasn’t weird, it was imperative and it was conscious and it was like, I’m going to Maine because there in Maine, there’s a collection of women and I’m going to get to the East Coast where my roots are because we live in Chicago.

[14:59] And I just needed, you know, maybe my sister and I just needed to run out of where I was and get out of my house.
And that alone also felt like a fantasy, you know, just like I’m going to go and then when I come back, this isn’t going to be real.
And I think I really left thinking that was the case. And just as an aside, there was so many things in this moment of like agony.
Because I don’t know if you’ve ever had a broken heart, it’s like the worst pain. It’s like a physical pain. You could remember it relative to when you were a teenager, maybe you had your heart broken. It’s hard even when you decide you don’t want the relationship. And it’s a very different.

[15:43] Set of circumstances when you were the one who wants it and the other person’s like out.
And I don’t think ever, I think that was, I was looking for any story that was like that, you know, tell me about your divorce. I know many, many people that have gone through divorce, but not one, like, mirrored the woman that was left and blindsided. And I felt like the most.

[16:09] Confused and broken than I’ve ever been and just left with the amount of love that I had for this man still and had nowhere to put it. It was just like, I’m just going to choke on this grief.
Being in Maine over there is part of a very spontaneous healing, which has a much more beautiful orbit of how we all got to one place in Maine.
Do you mind if I talk a little bit about the coming together of that?
At first I want to highlight, I want to highlight the part of you like that small whisper somewhere that knew the next right step and the next right step was, it might not even have been as specific as Maine, me and it was like to know to reach out for help feels like divine, divine blessing.
And I think even in the swirl, when it’s so hard to hear anything intuitive, that’s my experience in the swirl, in the grief, it’s hard to hear the intuitive, but sometimes we get a whisper of the one thing we need to hear.

Tracy’s Resuscitation Phase

[17:20] And I remember you saying it was like a pole, it was necessity to get to the East Coast and that there were a variety of people and stops that you had along the way.
And then I just to kind of put myself on the map and coordinates of where I was at when we ran into each other was, I was in a phase that one of my friends, Therese Jorlin called resuscitation.
And so I was coming out of my own seven-year cave of just, you know, you’ll hear me say this quite a few times on various interviews of just this deep, deep energy deprivation.
And the idea of resuscitation was like, hey, all the things that used to bring you alive, all the things that you identify with, it’s okay if you can’t do them right now.
It’s okay to say no.
And so Janelle had said, hey, Tracy’s in town And I really want to circle up around her.
She could really use us.
So this group of five women that we call the coven, that will be a whole nother episode and hopefully I’ll get them all on here.
It’s not unusual that if we ever get the blessing of all five of us getting together, that we would circle up and say like, hey, what’s in your heart?
We might pull a card.
We might sing some songs.

[18:41] We might burn some intentions, you know? And if somebody, if anyone in particular seems to be in a place of overwhelm or that they need some love, it’s then not unusual to say like, hey, like go ahead and lay down.
And each woman might take like one hand, like a hand and another one would take the other hand and someone would take the feet and the next person would take the head and just kind of like hold that limb and hold space.
And in that holding, there’s no pressure. There’s no, like, we’re here to heal you.
We’re here to fix you. It’s just like, oh, we’re here with you.
And whatever comes up.
We’re here with you. You may cry, you may laugh, you may just receive this attention and love.
We’re here. And so there’s the physical touch, there’s the presence.

[19:41] So I, in this resuscitation phase, had said no to some things that I would normally love or be like, yes, that’s what I’m here for. And I called Janelle and I said, you know, I don’t know that I have it in me to hold space. I don’t know that I have that in me yet.
And we talked a little bit. And as we were talking, I realized that just two weeks before I had I had held space for Kate Northrup’s mastermind, kind of given a presentation.
And this was one of the first things that I’ve got done since like coming out of the cave.
And the theme was Blueprint Handshake, which I presented a little different.

[20:27] Something I could connect to more, which was how can I resource?
So this is for the listeners. Like I, this is kind of a big thing.
I think everybody who’s listening to this is most likely empathic in some way, or you are most likely relational with somebody, and relational meaning like, there’s another human in your life, and there’s a good chance that they have had a hard time before, and you may have experienced that it’s not unusual that someone could unload or share what they’re going through and that you might then feel it in your body, and then you might feel the sadness, and you might feel the anguish, and then you might go to bed and can’t sleep and you’re up all night.
And a lot of times for our closest people, it’s like, yeah, I can do that, but there’s only so much capacity.
The idea of the work that I did with Kate’s group was, Is there a way that we can resource from?

[21:22] Mother Earth from imagining that there is an energy outside of us or feeling into the energy around us. Can we resource broader so that our job again is simply to be stable so that somebody else can have their experience and we can be present with them and they can maybe even feel more comfortable knowing that the other person’s not taking it all on and having to digest it, right? There’s no like, oh man, now they have to deal with what I’m dealing with. It’s like, oh, someone can be stable and present. And so I use that as an, I was like, okay, this is an opportunity to practice what I was just teaching. And then everything happened so organically. You know, everyone shared what was in their heart. And I know coming out of a place of insane exhaustion. And in your exhaustion was from pain, right? Emotional pain, emotional pain is so exhausting. So to ask, to like, to say, do you want to lay down? It’s, it’s, it can be like, I can barely sit. I need to lay down, right? Like.

[22:29] Yeah. I mean, there’s so much in what you just thought or just recalling that.
The most interesting thing that happens and I can only speak to it now, but it’s not as if I wasn’t aware of it in the moment is that when you are in that space where life has brought you to your knees and you’re questioning okayness, you’re not questioning if you want to be…
It’s not like that. I want to be alive. I just don’t know if I’m going to be okay. I don’t know what the next two decades of my life, if I’m blessed to have them, are going to be now.
You know, I don’t know how I’m going to do this, you know, and getting thrown into the center of that.

[23:14] There’s a quality and if you’ve lived a life where you’ve had traumas there’s a quality of knowing what it is to be on that edge and there’s an aliveness and like a, Heart pulsing that you’re kind of normalizing, but when you’re in this place where it’s like truly like everything broke apart and you can’t even see like that much in front of you other than like the murky message of like and.

[23:38] And then it feels so desperate, you know, like help, like help me figure out how to organize and you use the word coordinate points.
Like we’re kind of creating like your body, everything about me was like, where can I find comfort?
You know, and first it was like an external, like crusade out.
And then where am I ever going to not feel this pain?
When am I not going to be in pain at the grocery store, you know, where I cried, you know, every aisle or at work, in the bathroom, or in any conversation where people were looking like they lived normal lives and your whole couple identity was gone. And being in that space in Maine with that all coming together and then being asked to lie down was… You don’t even have a sense or I didn’t even have a sense of allowing… Lying down almost felt like I had to and lying down also felt like I am going to just implode in tears, which is exactly what happened, right? There was no place for me to go, but just fucking cry. And for a while I was asked, what are you doing for your self-care? What are you doing? Not Sarah, she doesn’t ask that.

[24:51] Although I might ask that on the podcast. You know what, like self-care was like the moments like you’re done crying that hard and that long, you can track that you had a second of like, you know, like you had a second where you weren’t stormed in a storm.
So to that point, Sarah, the irony of like her wondering she was going to come and then found a way to come and feel like she can be there and really be present and not deplete.
The most fascinating thing was, and I will never forget this, it was ineffable, like my whole body.

[25:35] Literally, she was on my right, literally fetal position to the right, and just felt like I had to put my head on her lap.
And just so you understand, that feeling of, please help me feel OK, please help me understand how I can be safe in this pain, was all I wanted to do.
And I’m not at a point where I’m going to go for drugs. And there might have been a point.
I would have wanted to anesthetize and go crazy and go fuck everyone and find a way to just distract.
But everything in my body was like, you’re here.
And the only interesting moment in that moment was a very clear physical, almost like a force of like, I have to lean into this.

[26:29] Whatever is happening here inside of the room. and it was all happening.
As you say that, I’m like, oh, I feel like this is so important because this is Janelle’s genius here is, you know, none of this was by accident.
And when you spoke to Janelle and when you spoke to Taylor, there was something that you and I both know from some of the maps called looping, right?
It’s like the thoughts don’t stop and they take over every moment and there’s fear and there’s anxiety And it’s so overwhelming and that by speaking about it, it doesn’t actually shift anything.
And so Janelle’s genius in this moment was, Hey, can we give her a place where she can have space to drop into her body and just let the genius of her body do what it knows it needs to do.
And so part of that circle was to allow you to move from a looping place in the brain of like the up and out, up and out, up and out, but shoot, I’m stuck.
It’s the double bind of, I need to get out and I’m stuck.
I need to get out and I’m stuck. I need to get out and I’m stuck.

The Body’s Wisdom: A Journey of Somatic Exploration

[27:43] And the body, which is so interesting, because Tracy and I have spent over 20 years individually in the yoga world.
And you would think like, who knows the body better than us?
But as I get into more of the somatic exploration, and I am just in awe, and I thought I knew how to listen to the body, but man, I just have so much to learn.
Yeah, so this was like, just time for your body to release and to shake and to be held and for your body’s like intelligence.

[28:19] To have space and time to do what it needed. And I think that’s also what we witnessed that night was just like your body just got to be in a safe space to feel and release what it was feeling, and needed to release.
And then I’ll say, for me, just to be clear, if anyone’s listening, they’re like, oh, she said she wasn’t sure. And then she ended up, you know, being in the closest connection. It was all so organic.
And I really felt the resourcing from the outside. I felt Taylor was holding one of my feet.
What I chose to do, because I had been the one in the middle enough times before, and I know how precious is it, but I also was like, I don’t want to be the one in the middle, right?
Like when I’m the one in the middle, it’s like, oh my God, thank you.
And can I just be a stable one on the outside?
And so part of me, like the way that, you know, they say when you’re having a moment with a child, get down on the ground with them.
This is not you being a child. This is like what maybe what I would have wanted too is like…

[29:29] Be there with you. And so I laid down next to you because I didn’t want you to feel like, oh, we’re all seated upright above you. I wanted you to feel me with you.
And I didn’t want you to think that I thought I was above you or like you’re broken and I’m fixed, but instead like, oh, we’re here. And the resource that came to me, just to be clear, So the original exercise was from Bridget Vixenins from Alchemical Alignment Blueprint Handshake.
And, um, it, it doesn’t quite work for me yet. So for me, what I found was like, I, I am a little bit of like a moaner and a breather.
And so I just found like, my breath would be like, ah, like just kind of like helping to just move things through. And I felt so resourced. Like I felt Janelle’s stability above your head.
I really felt her. She didn’t actually have her hands on your head. She, like, took her appropriate space.
I felt Liz, like, just off to your side, and I felt her just, like, navigating her space just right.
And I think Ginny had a hand on you, and Taylor had a hand on your foot, but also on mine.
And I felt their support of me. I felt, you know, a greater support.
And so I really felt like, oh, I get to just be here.
And it felt so, it just felt so easy, organic, and right.

[30:57] It didn’t feel like depleting. It just felt like such a blessing to be able to be there with you.
And I just think that there was a lot of wisdom that happened.

[31:06] Music.

[31:14] If you are feeling depleted today, or even if you’re feeling well, I wanna offer you my free program called 21 Days of Untapped Support.
What this means is that you’re tapping into resources that are all around you, possibly within you, that could help shift the equation of stability means more resources than demand.
So some resources we look for depend on our financial state.
If I have more money, I could afford a babysitter.
If I have more money, I could afford better health insurance.
I could afford to go to the retreat. I could afford to take that program.
And it becomes very dependent.

[32:00] 21 days of untapped support begins to look at what resources are already there, already in front of me, around me, inside of me, that I can tap into.
I’ve put this program together as small doable pieces of nervous system support.
I’ve also taken it myself. When I first launched it, I took it myself and each day I thought, man, this is an awesome reminder and so useful today.
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Because again, it’s free and it’s digestible and it’s highly useful.
So check out the show notes at the bottom and go ahead and sign up if it feels like like it’s calling to you in any way.

[32:51] Music.

[32:59] Benzler says that when she got cancer, like all before that, her body was an abstraction until she got sick.
And then it like brought her home to her body. And I’m not saying that you need some tragic diagnosis, but I would say that there are, at least for me, I think it’s been the first time, that it’s not just theoretical, or I just like the way it sounds.
There hasn’t been an urgency for me to really stand in that power of what it is to really listen to my body, until this happened.
I had nowhere else to go.
Like I had been for years moving up and out and have justified that not knowing that I wasn’t embodying.

[33:51] And to me, like when you’re navigating that territory, truly, it feels like a deer with trembly legs. It doesn’t even feel like you can trust it.
And so those moments of even heeding the call of like, I need to get to Maine or so many things, so many things present themselves as you’re listening to that deeper, or that the truth of the body, that truth of the universe, it’s like, we don’t know it.
We hear it, right? We hear it all the time.
Like, the universe will conspire to support you, la la la, all great.
And then yet you’re on the precipice of like the most scary time in your life.
I mean, we had no money. We had a child together.
We had complete uncertainty in every facet, big facet of your life that had no stability or security and it was gone.
And so, as you’re faced with that.

The Struggle to Find the Right Tools for Healing

[34:57] And you’re trying to weave together and put pressure on yourself, that you should somehow be able to find tools to figure out, are you meditating? You’re not meditating for 20 minutes.
I kept saying to Sarah in a lot of our sessions, exercising.
By the way, I didn’t suggest that she exercise. No, no.
But you know what? I was echoing the message of this is going to make me feel better if I go to an exercise.
I’m not saying it definitely works, but when I was that depleted, the greatest act of grace was.

[35:39] I chose not to beat myself up because I didn’t exercise. That was a win or whatever other…
It’s just that became a really interesting thing is what is it to offer yourself grace, which is a brand new conversation when you’ve spent your life using yoga practice as crisis management, and it no longer is a tool. It doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. It’s not so…
I’m saying it doesn’t work for everybody, but in that moment, it doesn’t work. In the moment of the deepest exhaustion, I just remember in the moments of deepest, deepest exhaustion, I’m like, Ooh, breath work, like the thought of even, it’s hard to, I’m wondering if it’s hard for listeners to get to like, be like, is that possible to be so tired that to do a four second inhale and an eight second exhale would feel like way too much effort, but there can be places where it’s like, oh, like deep, deep resuscitation where it’s like, oh, I just, I need to be held. I need to like curl up. I need to be held. I need some, I literally need to curl up and ask somebody to come into bed. There are those, yes, when you’re in it, any kind of technique feels safe.
Completely overwhelming. Like any, any, it’s like everything is being reorganized. It’s like.

[37:04] Yeah. So I’m wondering, yeah, if we can even like, we’ll touch on some of the session things, because as you said, Tracy, this is, this could be great for anyone going through anything where it’s a tough place and working through it and a little doable pieces. And for anyone listening, who’s like feeling like, oh, this is a lot. And we talked about how empathically we sometimes take things on. I would even, you know, you may be listening to your earbuds, but you can almost imagine like turning your body sideways to the information and being that stable person who you can say, oh, I actually like, Tracy doesn’t need you to digest it. And I don’t need you to digest it. You can kind of match up with like the information that feeds you and the information and that helps you and the rest of it, you can kind of let like pass by your body.
If you turned your body sideways, you can imagine that it can pass by your body and just kind of ways that you can feel rooted and notice, oh, present time, like present time, my name is, present time I’m in this room.
So if at any point as you’re listening, you can also use these skills of differentiating yourself from any story that feels like you’re taking it on or taking it in.
It’s so beautiful and unique.
It’s finding that each healing journey is unique to the person.

[38:30] There’s so many beautiful suggestions out there, but there’s also…

[38:36] Just the messaging that you have like it is being provided and it’s so hard to trust that when the suggestions of what is healthier what is needed is, Is there and it’s it feels as if I should be reaching for that, And it feels wrong. It feels like a Betrayal to myself or body if I’m not reaching for what I think I should be reaching And yet there is so much relief in, at least for me and in the deepest and most, and this has only been, I’m still only six months out of this, but I’d say that like, I finally feel like when I can just give myself, like when there’s relief in some decision, we were talking about this.

The Power of Making Authentic Choices for Self-Healing

[39:32] Like it’s just right. It’s like I not take this on and even though I feel like I have to.

[39:43] The cost on my energy versus whatever, if it’s a decision about work, to me starting to really trust in making decisions amidst needing to build resource is to say, wow, I haven’t really let myself empower the feeling of being relieved, like I need to keep doing.
Can I just highlight again, you say you said, so the power of being relieved is what your system needed.
Being relieved of what you should do to heal yourself, what you should do for self-help.

[40:21] To listen to yourself, to make choices that were authentic to your current situation, your current, not like, Oh, this is the best choice forever. This is the choice for now.
That helps me feel relieved. Yes. And if you, and just the, you know, the tenderness of realizing, like if I was in a relationship where I was always needing validation or I didn’t have agency over, like, you know, I found myself always asking questions. Like, do you think, you know, part of it is just that the practice that like, can I even answer the question? What do I need to support myself? That question had me, like, it rendered me silent because I didn’t know, the answer. Like I didn’t, the answers were things I’ve heard, but I, but they were.

[41:14] And it literally felt like I had no idea what I need to support myself right now.
I’m just, I’m coming up late.
And I do think that is why reaching out for help, not for the answer, but someone who can reflect back your answers.
So in one of our first sessions together, you were sitting in a place in your apartment where there was a lot of noise outside and you said, Hey, hold on.
Do you mind if I just move? I’m going to go upstairs. and.

[41:51] I remember, I don’t know if it was that day that I pointed it out or we just moved on with our session and we had a moment where we used a resonance exercise just so you could have a moment to be present with your body and notice what your body was touching on the outside.
And I think it was the following session that we did the three directions map, which is a somatic experiencing from Peter Levine and then updated by Bridget Bixnins.
And there’s, if you can imagine a rainbow, You could start to go up the rainbow with activation and go, oh gosh, I’m getting activated.
I’m going to do something to soothe or distract in order to stabilize myself.
And that might be like smoking a cigarette. It might be a breath practice. It might be yoga.
It might be three martinis. It might be any variety of things.
It could be watching TV, turning on Instagram and scrolling, all of those things soothe then distract and they bring you back down, not up and over the rainbow, but they might like bring you back down, likely close to the same starting point.
And that’s fine.
And if you don’t see then distract, it might go up into looping, which is that place that feels totally out of control. It’s a place of double binds.
And then to get up and over that loop that might bring you towards, um, possibly completion someday, possibly integration.

[43:19] There are these ideas of creating conditions. And one of the conditions is to pause, to pause, because then in the pause, we can maybe, maybe there’s a possibility that we have a desire, that we have an impulse.
Maybe in the pause, we can digest a moment.
Another one is choice.

[43:43] One is reaching out for support, there’s mutual support and cooperation where it’s like a win-win.
There are all of these little things and I think why it was so beautiful was that I could point out to you, hey remember in the last session where you paused before we started and you noticed that you had a preference and then you got up and you made a decision because this is a big deal right Right? Like in this state, it’s a big deal.
You made a decision to do something for yourself.
We were able to kind of just like point out all of this. So there’s a whole list of conditions and we’re able to say, look, like pray, you’re doing things here and there to stabilize and distract.
And look at these little teeny conditions, these little things that you are doing.
And I think that’s the beauty of having someone with you to reflect back because otherwise they could go completely unknown and you could assume that you are just spiraling out of control, and you could also assume that it’s not normal.
So to have somebody who’ll say like, of course, of course, your heart is broken.
Of course, it’s hard to get out of bed. Of course, you don’t want to exercise.
Of course, you’re at the beginning. Even for someone to say like, there’s a beginning, middle, and end.
You’re at the beginning. There was no preparation.

[45:00] And I remember how about the moments where I was like, I don’t think, you there was like a regression where I had, I spiraled back into like deep breathe. Literally couldn’t, we had a session where I just cried and you were just there. And I said something like, I don’t think I’ve ever been like in this much pain or we’re going to get out of it.
And that recall that you had as witness to say you have been, and there was movement. And and when the pain is so acute.

[45:37] And you’re so overwhelmed and you’re so likely to stay in the narrative over and over the looping.
To have somebody to remind you of the tiny progression that is so significant to it, working is, and I say quote, working because I mean that movement and change is happening.
It’s just not maybe for me at the expectation that we think, I just don’t want to feel this way anymore. I just don’t want to feel this way anymore.
And I’m having this conversation today, six months later, because those moments where it was.

The Healing Progression: Overlooking the Pause

[46:18] Almost taught as this is so normal and natural and human to the healing progression. And it’s It’s overlooked those, like you said, the pause.
It was like, I would have never empowered like, oh, I’m pausing the water at dinner before I break down because I miss having dinner with my husband and my son, and now I’m doing it alone.
And those were the hardest moments of looping where I couldn’t.
I remember that in time, there was pause before the takedown. There was.
And it’s that gentle, both the reminders of what’s really happening in the system became so comforting to me.
Like, they gave me so much hope that my body is doing what it needs to do to reorganize around a new reality of being whole.
And yeah.

[47:20] And I don’t think I would have ever understood that if I wasn’t at such a place of like, there’s no other option but to transform how I’m, pain you know inside myself there’s no choice. We mentioned too right we talked about, just to kind of normalize there is I feel like a lot of the power in going through something this traumatic and hard is to normalize a few things like you mentioned, you know, if you’re preparing dinner and you’re used to doing it for two other people as well or with, you know, two other people and we talked about the book Molecules of Emotion and Candice Pert’s work and this idea that our system is used to getting certain hormonal responses and all that, like in most of the cells in our body, like in various organs and that our emotional cells are throughout our entire body.
And they’re all vibrating a certain way, waiting for a certain hormone, waiting for a certain response.
And when it doesn’t come, we get withdrawal symptoms.
And so there is a physical pain when the emotions that we’re used to having met by somebody else.

[48:45] Isn’t met. And part of kind of uncoupling and unwinding is being able to start to meet those parts of ourselves within ourselves. But I think even when we named it at that time of like, oh, yeah, I mean, this is withdrawal. Like this is chemically withdrawal. Of course it hurts.
Of course, it’s hard, right? And I can’t tell you that was the revelation because there lies the option to have agency just to at least know what’s happening inside the system that just feels so out of control. There was something else. It was also a reframe in language. And when you’re getting used to when you’re unlearning, as you said, it is recovery, the idea that you are now.

Uncoupling and Unwinding: Meeting Emotions Within Ourselves

[49:44] No longer sleeping in bed with the person you slept with for 17 years, and just going to bed, alone became a terrifying experience to face. And I remember it was so hard not to go into victim, right? The mind goes, and the story, and you know in the body, now I’m back in that victim language. And that was something else in that was so, you know, it was gentle. It wasn’t like, it wasn’t like straight up affirmation, which I love and believe in, but it was, I get to, you know, I, you know, go to bed, my bed with myself and like, whatever was beginning to foster, like, I, you know, I have that opportunity to be in relation with myself.
And if you were always identified in relation with everything other than the self, like you’ve only identified, I only understood myself.

[50:41] As valuable and worthy based on my partner’s acceptance and seeing of me. And so when that was gone, and not only gone, but like decision that he no longer wanted, it was like that feeling of like, who am I? How do I regulate in this moment when I don’t have a weight of a body here?
We can always learn from each other. And as we were talking about this process of returning to yourself. So the one-on-ones that I offer now is called returning. And the language came to me, as I was working with you, because I saw, I mean, I saw you returning to yourself. And, when we could think of like this thought of you being abandoned by somebody, it started almost in your body to show like, oh, when did you leave you? And so what I want to say is learn for myself is that was a question I needed to ask myself in my own relationship where I could point out to my partner and blame him for things. And then as I was working with you, and it’s so much easier to see it in somebody else. And then I had to turn it back on myself and go, oh, when have I abandoned myself to make this work? When have I abandoned myself to to make everything okay for the family. And it steals actually from everybody.

[52:09] It seems like we’re giving, but it steals from everybody when we stop being authentic and in integrity with ourselves.
And do you mind if I share, I’m aware of time.
So what I wanna do is share just one more session point because I think it’s so helpful for anyone going through anything hard.
And then maybe you could share with us like where you’re at now.
Gosh, there were so many rich sessions. I was like, oh, wow.
Like what came through you? And I just want to say, like, there were things about like making really, as the time went on, the ability to make really big choices that were like yours and not his, and ways that you claimed right distance and layers upon layers of support, way, I don’t wanna say way beyond me, but like, yes, like in so many ways, and I could name them, but maybe if there’s time, you’ll name them.
But that was just really amazing to see you claiming yourself and your needs.
And what do I need to protect myself?
To like, you really started to come in to that where I can speak for myself.
There’s often like, oh, but if I do this for myself, will it hurt somebody else?
So, well, I think we’ll get there even if you can describe to us, you know, your current job in a little bit and also your apartment and what you said to me when you moved into your apartment.
But…

[53:30] The session I’m thinking of is we were going into your, first of all, in the very, very, like when you, when you went back into a really dark place, it was like, that was, I just want to say it loud.
Like I didn’t then say I was, it felt, it would have felt condescending to say like, okay, let’s take a moment to get back into your body.
Right? Like we were not there.

[53:50] So, so there was like that one reflective piece to go, you have been here before and you will come out.
So sessions continue and then we’re at this session and I asked you where you were feeling this sensation and you said, oh, my solar plexus. And you’re like, it’s always here and it’s fleeting and it’s this kind of thing of like running away from you, right? Like it’s like, the feeling gets uncomfortable and the tightness in the solar plexus gets really intense.
And then you said, it’s just fleeting. And I said, oh, oh, yeah, could you ask that fleeting feeling like if we could just, you know, it doesn’t have to change.
It doesn’t, like, can we keep it company? Is it okay if we sit by it?
Or like, what direction or place can we follow it?
And we’ve followed it. You followed it and you shared with me as you were following it.
Maybe you can more accurately say, but this was another like returning home to yourself and being with our inner child, that was so beautiful for me to witness.
And I’ll let you share, and then maybe I’ll tell you what my takeaways were. There were so many.
That was, I think, a pivotal moment in just tracking, like an experience where you normalize moving up and out, or you don’t recognize the feeling of holding that.

[55:20] Inner child or that discomfort or that impulse, because I think that impulse to chase feeling better, not… I don’t recall specifically, but I know exactly where I was. I was like, my cousin was in and I was like walking around pacing, talking to him. And I just remember that feeling of not knowing if I could trust what I was feeling. And then as you reduce the questions, like as it was like, huh, actually that feeling of like not trusting that I can move.

[55:59] I can hang out with this rather than immediately get up and out of my body.
Or I just can’t, it’s so hard for me to articulate because this was so…

[56:13] Do you mind if I try from the outside what you were sharing? Yeah.
Was like, my experience and my memory of it was going back to abandoning oneself or staying with oneself.
It wasn’t the up and out that was abandoning. It was like, you were able to track that that feeling inside was this really young part of yourself that didn’t feel safe, but also didn’t feel protected, like your protector was gone.
And I think you had identified your last partner as like, he’s supposed to be my protector.
And now it feels the opposite. And so what it turned out being was like your adult present time self became your protector. So your adult present time self was like, Hey, little one, You don’t have to calm down. You don’t have to behave. You don’t have to, but is it okay if I stay with you?
It’s kind of almost typical like reparenting modality in some ways.
So the feeling went up into your brain, is kind of how I remember you saying it, or up into your head.
And I think you were anticipating it would go out, but instead, as you just like, Hey, can I just stay with you or just watching it?
Okay. I’m seeing you doing a twirling motion with your hand. It starts twirling.

[57:38] And then I remember that like, then it just starts to dissipate and everything went calm.
And then there was a sense of like coherence and integration, as opposed to like.

Finding Comfort in Vulnerability and Connection

[57:48] Leaving your body and feeling unstable. And it was, it was just so beautiful.
It reminds me of this, it’s just very much today.
Like my, my almost three-year-old was having a really hard moment.
She flung herself on the ground and she was crying and I laid my body on the ground with her and laid my head on her chest. And when it felt ready, I said like, hey, can I hold you?
She said, yeah. And I’m holding her and holding her. And in my head, I’m thinking like, maybe I should, Like it’s been a while, maybe I should say like, hey, you’re ready to go.
And I thought, okay, she’ll have an organic impulse at some point.
Cause I think sometimes as parents, like, is it too much love?
Is it too long? At some point she’ll have an organic impulse.
And then she did. And she said like, I think I’d like a yogurt now.
And it was just like, okay, we can do it. And I just know when I go through in my own somatic sessions, What I’m often finding, I know for some people, it’s like no more containment, but what I’m often finding is, oh God, I just wish my hardest moments, that unmet need would have been to be held.

[59:02] If you’re curious about somatic exploration or nervous system support, you can check out the link below to make a connection call if you’re feeling serious about it or truly curious.
You can do a one-off session. And because this work, especially in relationship to the nervous system, is small doable pieces over time, I would consider thinking about a one month, two month, or three month period of time that you might dedicate towards nervous system support.
Again, you can start with a smaller step.

[59:44] Music.

[59:52] It makes me think a lot about that moment was so much about getting practice with staying, yeah, it’s staying with and.

[1:00:02] You think it’s intolerable, you know to stay with me you have to suffer through something feeling unsafe and erratic and it was like that moment of like.

[1:00:13] It actually like can we go have yogurt now? I mean it wasn’t That was a very different experience because they allowed that and allowed, you know, through the languaging and through the guys just to kind of like, it’s almost like the residents, like what specifically, where is it, where is it happening, you know?
And so in doing so, there was just the choice to stay long enough for me to see that I was, going to be okay, you know, it was going to, it was going, it was fleeting, it wasn’t permanently going to stay and keep me in that space. And so that was, that was significant, no question.
You know, these are really, really delicate and tender up, like, these are the small baby doses that the little pieces. And just to say, like, there are times where fleeting is the best thing. My teacher will say like, you know, it’s like could be very healthy for various people to have different flights, like, like the need to travel or the need to go out for a run or different fight modalities, which might be working out or, you know, martial arts that we can have healthy outlets for them. Or sometimes it’s just something that’s too hard and emotionally. And, and maybe it’s not as healthy of an outlet and sometimes, but so like you are building your capacity over this time so that then you are capable of staying.

[1:01:42] And then even in that same conversation, there was that whole, I get comfort in being social and being social and wanting to talk. The impulse was to want to talk to the very person that was creating such threat in my system, but I still felt like I needed to reach out to him. So that was that impulse of like, it was such a terrifying feeling to go like, that’s not there anymore.
I thought about that, which was a big deal. That was a really big deal.
It was all part of it. So instead of the impulse of the younger one being like, I need to have some words with that person, which never ended up helping you in the long run, to be able to reclaim the adult self, like you reclaimed your adult self every time the child wants to take over, but you also didn’t abandon the child. You didn’t suppress the child. You didn’t.
Now, like I want to make sure it’s clear, like that impulse and drive to want to reach out and ensued through communication, no boundaries.
I just need to write you this now or I need you on the phone. I still feel that.
I felt it today. I wanted to call my almost ex-husband and I still have that impulse.
And it’s like now it’s not a possession anymore. It’s like, OK, that’s there.

[1:03:02] And there are moments I’ll open my phone and get that closed.
And then I’m just like, I remember.

[1:03:09] What it’s like to fall into that impulse to let the younger self like take over and creating such havoc in my system.
And I remember that, it’s like saying, I’m not gonna drink tequila anymore because I just got so hung over and I’ll never do that again.
But having an emotional hangover from losing control is it’s taxing, it’s intense.
It’s expensive. Expensive.
And then building resiliency to say, okay, that impulse to want to soothe by doing that is still present and it’s, I could stay with that now and it dissipates is amazing. It’s not perfect.
Perfect. I’ve had, you know, but so much different. It’s like, there’s so many things that my system, would have been derailed so many different ways and been so disproportionately reactive.
And I’m like realizing now like how steady and temperate I am in responding to like big things.
And also not so stupid, you know.
You are truly incredible. And I think what was so awe-inspiring as we got to work together was.

[1:04:32] Yeah, your ability to navigate. And speaking about the verbal aspect of it, when you were able to put words to things that are so hard, that would normally for most people just be too much to put any words to. You were able to put narration to the process.

[1:04:51] I think words for me are anchoring, like trying to find some kind of language to describe what is indescribable is very, it’s like a meditation. So maybe for me, it was the only way to ground because I felt like I could do that. I could reach that wasn’t foreign. Dialoguing with you, was the messaging, right? That for me, it was those, where it was a container where I can, believe in it, you know, I can, I can feel if I can say it, you know, like it’s real.
Tracy, I don’t want to, we have just like five more minutes. So I’m wondering if you could just let us know kind of like where you’re at now. And I also appreciate you saying like, and I still feel this urge, you know, just so that like we can all be real human with each other that you’re no longer at the beginning, you’re closer to a middle, and we’re human.
And so the urges and the pain, I don’t want to say just like grief, but because.

[1:06:03] This is its own form of grief. It’s a whole mixture of… Some people call it cyclical.

Layers of support and unexpected career change

[1:06:09] When I was in my deep grief, someone said to me, it’s almost like you think everything’s good, and this bomb goes off and you’re suddenly deeply in it again. And so I’m going to stop talking and let you share what you’re doing. So one thing you heard in the Latin, just like a snippet of the dialogue was there, use the term layers of support. I have one hand, one palm open and the other palm is underneath. And that’s sort of like how this, there was support underground while at the top was like all this stuff and all the things I was going through through. Underneath, there was like all these things that were presenting themselves at the same time. And one was a job that I never would have ever thought that I would land in this job. In this job, I was always a teacher. And this was an opportunity to teach at my son’s school and has a whole story behind it. But when I interviewed, I thought it was for middle school, which I was a high school teacher. And when I did the interview, I learned thought it was. I was talking in the interview, she said, well, can you tell me a little bit about how you’re going to traverse the age group that you’re going to, you know, that we’re, you know, we’re considering you for? And I was wait, what? And she’s like, well, intermediate is, is.

[1:07:24] Is early childhood is like we and they call it intermediate. So I’m working with kindergartens and preschool, but I work with early childhood and I work with children every day and I call them like my little nervous systems. And I cannot tell you like aside from the culture, but just being with children in this capacity in this way every day could not have been, I always said to Sarah, it’s almost like my inner child. I don’t even want to exploit them as that. But there is a sense that just being with children is an unbelievable and unforeseeable career change that I never would have had. And I’m in love with it. It is completely synthesizing all of the tools and all of the things I’ve ever learned and boiling it down to how can I serve these children who are a year or two out of COVID and their neurodivergence. And I’m always like, give me the most neurodivergent child and I will deeply find a way to help them feel like they’re.

[1:08:35] In their bodies and they’ll find a way. So I don’t know. That was incredible. And there were so many relationships that were recurring and past family coming into my life. There were so many things.
So where am I now? I moved. I got out of my place with my husband, soon-to-be-not.

[1:08:58] I don’t know what’s a conformer husband. And I’m never in, I don’t think I’ve ever lived alone.
I’ve always been, I was married before. I’ve been in relation for, since I’m in my early 20s. And, I’m living alone. I have my own space. And it also presented itself exactly in the area that I wanted within the price range, kind of with parking in Chicago, with a bedroom, a bathroom for my son with a lot of light on a quiet street is here. And it’s like every day, I just sort of like walk around it in the morning and I’m like, it’s just sweet. And me, for the first time, it’s a big deal to pick out a dresser that I want, or I don’t know, or fill my son’s room with what I won. And these are all things that are like these incredible opportunities that I just was asleep to because I had a partner that did all those things. And that was great.
I was great at attracting partners that wanted to do everything.

[1:10:03] When you left me a Voxer, you said something like, you can correct me because I’m not going to get it all right. But you’re like, turns out, I don’t like, is it postmodern? I don’t like Post-modern.
Yeah, it turns out I really, if I ever see another piece of mid-century modern, I might call. It’s actually like vintage and bohemian and like, you know, just not a mid-century modern girl. And who knew? Like, you know.
Yeah, you’re like, turns out I’m not a minimalist. I’m a maximalist. I do.
It was like best, the best, it was like, that’s not my style at all.
And you started describing your new apartment. I’m like, this is amazing because now that you’re not in, and earlier on as you were going through this.

[1:10:48] It was kind of like, I forget what Taylor and you were calling it about, the possibility of going back into the relationship.
You had a name that you were calling it, I don’t remember. And at some point, you and I were talking, and I was like, when you return to you, and as you start noticing that you have certain desires, and that you have opinions, and you don’t even know what you’re going to want on the other side, because you don’t know this person yet. And so I’m watching you as you choose something, because you’ve been an entrepreneur for a long time, and Tracy still teaches amazing, right?
She is an amazing writer. She goes straight. She writes like multiple books.
She holds these classes that help you find your soul through writing.
It’s she’s incredible.
She helped me with some of the copy on my website and just having the sessions with her was like solved to my soul.
She was, she’s incredible.

[1:11:47] So. On top of that, like getting to feel into, Oh, at this stage in my life, when everything is unknown and unstable, I’m going to have a nine to five job.
You know, it’s not nine to five.
I’m going to have a job that’s steady, that has hours, even though I’m a person who likes to have all this freedom that in this stage of your life, you were able to choose for yourself because I think your partner was like, that’s not you.
Yeah, that’s going to overwhelm you. You’re not going to like to be showing up for someone.
And, and that was a hard decision. And it was confusing to have my partner say that and then really the anxiety of like, is it going to overwhelm me?
And the irony is- Does he know me better than I know me? That’s the biggest, that was a huge revelation and just giving the opportunity to be shifted into a new culture and a new routine. Yes.

[1:12:38] Right. Completely. love it, which was just a boon, it was one of those, that is where the universe is like, you’re going to be OK.
And Sarah and I used to say, it’s not like, here’s a job for $700,000.
It wasn’t perfect, but it was enough of a sign that movement was happening.
And that was present. And it’s like a woman who I follow. She went through tremendous grief.
I got into grief groups just because I wanted to understand how to live with loss, a loss of a life that I don’t have. And one of the things I remember is something she said.

Learning to live with loss and grief

[1:13:21] It was a photo of her in her kitchen. And she was chopping carrots.
And she lost her husband.
And she lost her husband when she had just given birth to their daughter.
And sudden, he got sick and he died.
And there was like a…

[1:13:36] A tone to the picture, the way she looked, and it was like that simultaneously when you have grief, and grief is like this big word, right? When you have an experience that you feel like you will never get through and you are getting through it, there’s a tonality that comes with your life that is like so hard to explain. It’s a sound, like you can see it in a person’s face that they have walked through fire. And then maybe in time, it’s the choice-making. It’s the recognition of doubt, but it isn’t being governed by doubt. And all of a sudden, I think those are the boons of when you have withstood and healed a very deep wound, you know?

[1:14:26] Now it’s not like you’re free and lissy, but like you’ve learned to hold it in such a way that it makes life’s sound so much deeper, you know? And I think that’s what I’m realizing.
And I think, you know, as we close up here, it’s like, there’s a tone, you said there’s a tonality to people who have been to the depths, have navigated, have come out.
There’s a depth to them. and although that’s not all, I’m free.
And I just want to say, this is what I’m experiencing right now.
Somebody reflect, I literally ran into somebody in the woods.
She texted me, and then we, 20 minutes later, by total chance, by total chance, quote unquote, we ran into each other in the woods, and she said, I am so appreciative of you right now, the way that you’re sharing online, your joy, because a lot of times that feels unsafe.
And she wasn’t necessarily saying for her it’s unsafe.

Finding Joy in Grief and Self-Alignment

[1:15:24] And I’m always so like, Oh no, you know, there’s like, Oh no, because I don’t want, people who are in deep grief to think that they’re alone. And, but the thing is that people who’ve walked in the dark, the joy that is possible, whether it’s here now or not, the joy that is possible for you is exponentially greater and authentic joy that become that’s It’s because of you coming home to yourself, you having choice, you being in alignment with yourself, like the potentiality that now exists for you.

[1:16:01] With no pressure, no pressure for it to have to come any day like okay is okay, steady is steady.
But there’s potentiality for joy beyond anything you’ve ever known.
I’m just going to like breathe that in because I can even feel like that younger self-co-representation really.
I know. And- Small doable pieces. That’s another Bridgette Vixens.
I feel like I have to keep like quoting her and be like, yeah, she’s been such an inspiration for me.
Well, when we’re used to the walloping super size of like expectation and breakthrough, so radical, but I’d say there’s also that part of me that knows what you’re saying.
And has in some degree, when we say small digestible pieces, it’s the same with the joy, like the thing, yes, love anymore are like, those moments are indelible. Those clearings where you’re like, Oh my God, you know, a joy that I would have never ever experienced.
I love you.
I’m so grateful for you and the way that our paths continue to cross so mutually beneficial.
I just feel like it’s always so mutually beneficial.
So thank you for making my life richer and love you.

[1:17:24] Music.

21 Days of Untapped Support

[1:17:35] Thank you for tuning in. it’s been such a pleasure. If you’re looking for added support, I’m offering a program that’s totally free called 21 Days of Untapped Support. It’s pretty awesome. It’s very easy. It’s very helpful. You can find it at sarahtasey.com. And if you love this episode, please subscribe and like. Apparently it’s wildly useful. So we could just explore what happens when you scroll down to the bottom, subscribe, rate, maybe say a thing or two.
If you’re not feeling it, don’t do it, it’s totally fine.
I look forward to gathering with you again. Thank you so much.

[1:18:15] Music.