039 – Kimothy Joy: Stepping Into Your Creativity

[0:00] Music.

[0:08] I’m Sarah Tacy and this is Threshold Moments, a podcast where guests and I share stories, about the process of updating into truer versions of ourselves.
The path is unknown and the pull feels real. Together we share our grief, laughter, love, and life-saving tools.

[0:27] Music.

[0:38] Welcome to Threshold Moments. My name is Sarah Tacy and today we have with us Kimothy Joy. I am going to do a slightly unusual intro or bio. I’ve put Kimothy’s bio on one page and in her very first book, That’s What She Said, Wise Words from Influential Women, Kimothy has an introduction that I feel like really gets to the heart and the base of where so much of her work began and the influence behind some of it, much of it.
So these are her words.
My understanding of female power and fortitude began at a very early age.
My mother accomplished much in her lifetime, despite her humble beginnings.
She was the eldest of eight children in a Mexican-American family, and the first and only person in her family to go to college and earn a master’s degree.
As an entrepreneur, school teacher, and spiritual leader, she was the breadwinner for a family of six and a pillar of our community.

[2:01] To her last breath at just 55 years of age, she was patient and steadfast, even in the face of breast cancer, encouraging me to continue to find joy and seize the day.
Go have fun, gimme, she told me. Through her, I learned one of the most important lessons that strength and resilience of women are limitless.
The 2016 election was a pivotal moment for me.
I had already begun to dip my toes into various women’s empowerment campaigns.
I’m skipping forward a little bit. The election was more than just a political drama playing out.
It was about the collective story of women, yet another setback in our striving to gain influence and leadership in our society.
I wanted to bring a sincere message of empowerment, respect, and hope for women to a conversation where those elements are often lacking. So I sat down immediately after the election day and began to do what I do best.
I picked up my paintbrush and painted my feelings.

[3:20] Kimothy Joy is a mother, an entrepreneur, a joy seeker, a circler, and an empowerment specialist to women, who also expresses her gifts through watercolor and ink.
She primarily paints portraits of heroines of the past and present to honor the feminine strength within all of us.
Her art is a prayer for the world, and her art acts like a friend that has walked her through grief and turned her angst into art, hope, and joy.
Kimothy’s first book that she wrote and illustrated starting the day after the election with a cheeky title, That’s What She Said, Wise Words for Influential Women.
Two weeks later, and we’ll touch on this in a little bit, but two weeks later she gave birth to her daughter, Luca Joy, in my notes. I’m like, what?
Cheeky little daughter, too.
So the podcast is Threshold Moments. And I’m kind of sitting here as like, do we start at the threshold of when you began to put paintbrush to paper after the election?
What began to transpire for you? What was that like?

[4:37] Yeah, so I guess just rewinding a little bit, I mean, I’ve always expressed myself creatively.
As a kid, there’s so many images of me just lying on the kitchen floor, in little overalls, like, what is that? Oshkosh bagosh.

[4:57] Overalls, like I have this vivid image of me on the floor, like drawing. And just I remember for doing that since I was so young, just intently putting hand to paper. And that felt safe for me, my way to express and just let myself get lost in my imagination and creativity.
And so, in my childhood, that was just a big thing for me. But yeah, as I aged into adulthood and went to college, I did study commercial art. And I knew I wanted to do something creative, but I was being a little more pragmatic about it. Like, what’s the job market? How am I going to make money? And that’s kind of the feedback I got from my parents and my community, growing up in Ohio. And so I was like, okay, I didn’t see many examples of people making a living as an artist. So I didn’t feel like that was an option. So I thought, okay, there are these options available, like being an art teacher, or who’s making money from doing creative things.
And it seemed like commercial art, graphic design, like more technical crafts were a more viable pathway. So, that’s what I studied. I kind of followed what felt safer. And I did become a graphic designer for a while and then a photographer. And I didn’t return to painting until.

[6:16] Like maybe two years before the election in 2016. So, I was about 30. And it was such an awakening for me. And I love that you said, you know, watercolors and painting have been a friend that have walked alongside me. So that’s so beautifully, I just want to like remember that forever. So that’s exactly what it was. It was.

[6:37] Yeah, like a rebirth moment in letting my inner child out and just play and express the way I used to as a remembering.
And I just been through a breakup with someone that felt really painful and didn’t have a lot of like coping mechanisms at the time.
But I just, yeah, it actually was the circle of friends, the circle of women at my dining room table in my apartment in Denver.
Really were showing up for me during that breakup. And one friend, Jolene, wanted to dabble in painting her wedding invitations. And she brought over watercolors and wine. And we sat at the table and we all just started painting. And that was the start of everything. And I hadn’t painted with watercolors since college. And I was 30 at that point. So that was like a major opening for me just being with my friends like laughing, crying, I don’t know, talking about everything, wine and painting, playing. And yeah, I had never really explored watercolor because I couldn’t control it. I liked oil and acrylic and I liked portraits when I went to art school.

[7:51] And so, that was even new for me like exploring the medium of watercolor and just letting it flow, not having to control everything. And it was like, it was a friend, it was like a collaborator, it would just do its own thing. And I was like, I had to be patient with it and slow down. And I had never slowed down in my whole life. I was like, go, go, be productive, produce. And so it was a teacher too for me. Like immediately, I just was like, what is this? It was a little frustrating, a little bit triggering, like working with it. But it’s taught me so much.
And yeah, it was that day with friends at night, sitting in a circle just painting and my friends were like, you’re pretty good at this. I’m like, what?
Like you think we’re bad? And for me, I was like, yeah, you know, I like painted and I’m a dark soul and you know, I’ve always been, this has been my thing to some extent.
But for me, it just felt so good. Like such a release, like, oh my God, like I need to build this into my life.
I’m going to do this every day. And I did.
Left all my paints and I ordered more. I got them all out. I left them on my dining room table in that apartment and they were always out. I had brushes everywhere. Anytime friends, anybody stopped by, I would be like, sit down, paint. People who were like, I’m not an artist.
And then friends who were, and we would just always have it out and we’d paint together.
And it was such like a connecting point too, a way to connect.

[9:16] Yeah, it’s just such an outlet for me. Two things are coming to mind.
One is I remember how nervous I was. You and I went the first time that we got together, we went for a walk.

[9:28] And when we were done with the walk, cause that’s like my comfort, like we’re moving and we’re talking and we’re in nature.
And so it’s like all the resources of movement and nature while meeting a new person.
And then you like bring your bag out and you’re like, hey, let’s paint.
And I was like, oh my God.
What am I going to think? Like it’s- Common reaction.
Like there’s like a freeze, which as I was listening to you, I was thinking about, you know, there are all these, I think in Portland we have one that’s called The Muse or something like that.
We have all these places where they mix drinking wine with painting.

[10:06] And as I understand it, and you and I spoke about this a little bit yesterday, at some point we’ll get to our day that we had yesterday.
We have, you know, two hemispheres of the brain. And if you think about the use of the brain as like lifting weights, then we’re taking the left hemisphere to the gym all the time.
The side that’s planning, the side that’s thinking about the past, the side that ruminates on things, the side that wants to make sure we get things done, that’s like aware of Kronos time.
And then we have the right side that’s artistic and it’s slower.
And it’s where we often might feel into our soul’s calling and is more in rhythm with nature and Kairos time, that like forever and now time.
And I think that our society has us so trained to move fast.

[11:05] That to slow down and that the final product matters so much. Like, is it good?
Like your friends are like, wow, that’s so good. Versus like, I mean, it’s so great that your art is so great.
And in a moment when you were grieving the loss of a partnership, you got to access a sense of presence, joy, and community.
And so like bonus, what you paint is beautiful. And the process itself ended up being this healing tool.
But just wanting to name that for myself, there was this like, ah.
And so then I ordered paints and when I first got them, there’s this little piece of paper on the other side of the watercolors where I can just, you know, take the color of the paint, put it on paper so I can see the color.
What would you call that piece on the side? The color?

[11:58] Oh, where it’s like the swatches of the different. Yeah. That was like my safe starting point of like, I’ll take a paint and put it over here and write the color next to it. And my daughters are next to me and they’re like colors on their paper. And then my daughter starts like doing this flicking technique to just like throw color all over the paper and the two of them. And then the other one, the younger one starts cutting the the paper up, taping it together, then painting over it.
And there’s just no inhibition. And each piece for them is so different.
And I’m there just like, I’ll just start by taking some lines and then I’ll label the lines.
And it’s like a slow process of now I can just say like, okay, what color is calling me?
And I put that color down and like, okay, what wants to come next?
And so it’s still a process, but I love it every time I sit down with it.
And I owe that to you. For years after motherhood, I was like, I want to paint again. I want to paint again.

[13:02] And I had this block, all I can call it is like a block, like I don’t know what paintbrush is.
I don’t know, like all the I don’t know, so I can’t do it.
So it was really great when you just put them in front of me and I didn’t have those excuses anymore.
And I was like, oh, okay, I’ll just paint.
I’m so glad. I can facilitate that. And yeah, I mean, that shows up, that kind of reaction response and not even just art, but in so many different areas in our lives too, like, oh, I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m not ready, you know, that like freeze reaction.

[13:38] And yeah, I mean, I still feel that way when I look at a blank canvas and piece of paper, like every time. And I think there’s a little bit of, maybe not an overcoming, but yeah, I mean, that’s always like present. And then I’m like, okay, I have to like self-soothe.
And that also came up through painting. I just learned to just be.

[14:00] Yeah, with myself and the stillness and all those thoughts like, okay, what are you doing?
Like, what are you going to do? Are you going to like, put this online and sell it? Or people don’t like it? Oh, you know, like my mind always goes there, probably because that’s how we’ve been programmed in our society. So it’s like, it is a lot of reprogramming. It’s such a powerful facilitator of, yeah, gently dismantling the perfectionism, the notion of it has to be perfect or I won’t even do it, I won’t even start. And it’s just the act of doing it, like your girls so readily know. We’re trying to return to that as adults, I feel.
I know.
Just that emoting on the page. And it’s like our birthright. That’s what we’re here to do. We’re here to dance and sing and express and emote through all these creative mediums. And I don’t know what happened. I mean, it feels like, yeah, there’s just a great unlearning of that and and returning to that in the child and that play and allowing ourselves, like giving permission to do that. So it’s been such a gift and a teacher for me. And I love sharing with you.
I love sharing it with other people. It’s just so powerful and simple.

[15:08] Sarah Jenks’ episode airs October 31st, and I believe this one comes out November 14th.
And so as you say, I don’t know what happened. I feel like if anyone didn’t listen to Sarah’s episode, she can walk you through the story of patriarchy and what happened.
Other people are better historians.
Which isn’t, whenever I heard that, I was like, oh no, does that mean my dad is bad? Or does that mean my husband’s bad? It’s like not the diminishment of men, but a story of control and power that was for the benefit of few. And so, of course, the artists are generally the rebels because the artists are often feeling into the soul of truth and putting it onto paper and inspiring people through that. And I think that’s what happened.
Yes, absolutely. And it’s like you were saying earlier too, with the left brain, the right brain. It is like a muscle, just working out in our society. Our society, for quite a while now, has prioritized the left brain, the analyzing, the doing, the producing productivity.
And so, yeah, growing up, I just…

[16:31] That was my natural inclination was to create and be an artist and be daydreaming, be lost, and listen to my heart. But I think over time, I got the message that it’s not important in the world or it doesn’t create value. And the focus on the outcome is like, what are you going to do with this? That was loud and clear. And I think many of us reflected when we’re turning to that balance. I think that’s what we’re doing, is the course drafting of, of prioritizing our creativity and our play.
And like, oh, I wonder if you have one tip that you could give the listeners to step into their creativity.
So this idea of like a small doable piece, like what’s the smallest doable piece that you might recommend to somebody who is thinking about, is like looking at a blank piece of paper or wants a way to emote creatively.

[17:25] And not do it with friends, safe group of friends. That’s how I started.
And like, that’s the whole point of my new book, Being Women, I mean, do it with friends, be in a safe container where you feel comfortable and they can coach you through and give you like, that loving feedback and witness you and laugh with you and make it silly, you know, not too serious.
And whether it’s like dancing or singing or painting, anything, I would just say just better with friends.
I love that. That was not the answer I was expecting. And mine would have been like serious and something you could do on your own every day. And I love do it with friends because when it’s fun, it’s so much more approachable and so much less serious.
I thank you for that. Yeah, it doesn’t have to be so serious all the time.
And sometimes you can get really stuck just being in your own head, staring at that blank piece of paper and the paintbrush and you’re like, so like just being able to name it to your friends like this is coming up and it’s just, yeah, it helps you break through that and get into that playful state with the right people, of course.

[18:31] When you released your book in 2018, it seems like there was kind of a snowball effect where it was like then you’re painting for the US Women’s National Team soccer. And it seems like, and I can’t be for sure, but it seems like the world was so ready for your work and that many opportunities came up after the book was released. And then when I read that you had your baby, two weeks after it was released, the two things that I was seeing was momentum, the world is ready for you. And like, slow down. There’s a baby who’s going to require everything of you.
And you talked to us a little bit about that time and if there were any layers of support that were were there to help you or not that you would, that you wish that you could call in?

[19:27] Those are such good questions, yes. And I will say like, I just, back to what you were saying about when we first connected online and you’re witnessing me in that first comment, I was like, who is this chick?
Like, oh, she like put to words, like, this is my practice and I never thought about it really honoring my body.
And you were seeing that and I was like, oh, I need to know you.
Was an immediate connection there. But all of these little things I do when I sit at my desk that I’ve learned to do, it’s really like a channeling of the energy for me. And sometimes it feels like sexual, because creative energy, that humane energy, it feels like this urgency and it’s building. That’s how I would describe it. I got to get it out. So I got to get it on the page, like I’m seeing these things or I’m hearing her, like Maya Angelou, I’m hearing somebody, like feeling into them. So that became, like during the election.

[20:26] After having started watercolour painting and it was a cathartic experience after that, ending that previous relationship, like I knew to go to that tool when the election came about and I felt just so like disappointed and heartbroken on a new level, like just for.

[20:42] Womankind. And I knew I was like, okay, get out the watercolours and it was also whiskey at the time. Now I feel like I don’t have to combine the alcohol with the painting. Like I used to really enjoy that, to be able to access my feelings, but also I felt myself wanting to channel the potential and the greatness of women within myself too, what was possible, and not what was being mirrored in the outer world. Because I was like, this is all a lie.
I don’t understand this. This doesn’t line up. My soul knows we’re meant for greatness. We’ve done it before and that’s where we’re going and so am I like as an individual. And I was just like, it was like a contraction and Watercolor let me just like expand and get out these big emotions that I know so many people were feeling. And I think that’s what I tapped into. And that’s why my work resonated with people when I started sharing it, they could feel that. And I was like so open and I sat down every night and I just like opened up to like whatever wanted to come through. And I really, I would, it just started by me devoting myself to learning about women and not the way that I’ve been taught in school, but like giving myself like a whole new.

[22:01] History lesson, just like taking back that. I was like, no, I’m going to teach myself like who they were. I’m really going to get to know them, not what I taught, like to the iceberg surface level, what I was taught in school. Like this is somehow cathartic for me, but my contribution. And I wasn’t thinking about the outcome really, I just had to do it.

[22:19] And I would listen to speeches, to hear their voices, and to really get to know the vibration of their voice, like Eleanor Roosevelt. And I would listen to Maya Angelou, and I would, read, play podcasts about Frida Kahlo and all these women throughout history that did remarkable things and overcame so much during their lives, a lot of lifetimes. And then I would paint from there like while listening and just immersing myself in their essence. And I think now that I feel like I understand the way energy works more so, I think that’s what people were resonating with and gravitating to. And that’s what art does, it like just reveals some other energy and that’s why it can captivate people. They can feel the artist behind it or the energy they were channeling.
So that was my process. Every night during the election was just like, study a woman and just.

[23:18] Paint her watercolor portrait, paint her words that really stood out to me and like hand letter, like the melody and the emotion of her words too. I just really got into that, like just the potency of words and the spells that it could cast as well. And that’s what I was sharing online.
I had been sharing other things like doodles and personal revelations and things like that as I I was spending more time by myself painting, but really, I think momentum, it really was, it took off. And it totally surprised me. I’m like, I’m just, I’m just a girl crying in her office, like every night painting and people are like, Huffington Post is like this artist, like sharing things and like celebrities and I and then like my following grew. It, felt like a couple weeks and I think I just like, caught away in a bunch, like as it happens sometimes.
What celebrity most surprised you?
I think of like Cindy Crawford, like models. It was like kind of funny.
Yeah. Or, you know, politicians, like other female politicians I looked up to.
Ariana, like Huffington. Yeah, it was wild.
It’s like, when you start resonating with the women that you’re painting, there’s so many things. It’s like from the brainstem.
The reticular activating system. When you decide, I am going to look for so much evidence.

[24:45] Of times where women have stood up and made a difference and that this is possible, that you start seeing it more, you start being it more, your brain actually can receive what other… Because otherwise you would take the election and you could just see that there’s no chance, no possibility. And so you decided to see something else and then you immerse yourself in the voices, in the stories, and all I can see is like the energy all around you and start like shifting yourself to a resonance that aligns with that. So then like, of course, Ariana Huffington’s gonna like meet that resonance and be like, oh, that, her, right? It just like.

[25:25] It makes so much sense. And like the US women’s soccer team, I just think of how powerful those women are. And of course, like we think it’s art, they think that they’re choosing your art, But perhaps what’s happening is they’re choosing a resonance that is a match for them and what they want to stand for. Yeah. Yeah. And I was thinking Malala Yousafzai was posting all these women that I look up to in their organizations. Yeah. And it was just every day I was like, whoa, whoa. Oh my gosh. Okay. And it’s like, but yeah, the resonance was we have this core belief in what’s possible. And so anybody who’s right there has that knowing, that belief. I think that’s what came into my field as my field expanded by letting all these women throughout history be my teachers and my guides. And as you’re talking too, I was thinking, one of my favorite quotes is by Maya Angelou. And she said something like, I stand.

[26:22] As one, but I come as 10,000. And Oprah has said that many times. That’s one of her favorite, quotes from… It’s from a poem of Maya’s. And I get chills every time I say that because.

[26:37] It’s like these women that I studied, they’re always with me. And even in my family, my lineage, my mom, my grandmothers, I can feel them. They’re like, you all have got this. You keep going, don’t stop and do it together. And that’s the wave that I think I caught in 2016 that so many other people were feeling like, no, we’re so much bigger than this. And we’re not alone. We’re doing this together. And it’s kind of like an ICU. Okay, we’re on the same wave. And that’s the type of people that started sharing my work. And then I… Yeah, all these partnerships came about like Reese Witherspoon’s Fellow Sunshine Company, like our media company. We did a a partnership and I worked with Melinda Gates on women’s health campaigns. And yeah, just so much came about, like the more I just put myself out there and I guess creating from that place, it was just a natural thing. Like I never, I didn’t really pursue opportunities.
They came to me. And that is like, people are like, well, how’d you do it? Like, what was your publicity approach or marketing campaign? Or do you have like a team? And I was like, Like it just, it was just putting it out there and it was a resonance match.

[27:52] It’s your approach and it’s not for everyone, but it is an approach that is definitely talked about, in the quantum field or even Kate Northrop right now with relaxed money when it’s about finding the relaxation first before waiting for the external circumstances to show it.
Getting into like that this project was a healing project that you needed that you dove into and.

[28:23] You dove into the energy of these women, which this is gonna bring me kind of, we skipped over the motherhood threshold a little bit.
We can come back, but this brings me to your follow-up journal that you put out, Focus Pocus.
And I couldn’t help but to think that each one of these books that you’ve released is just kind of the next stage of when you deepen into these studies.
So you deepen into these studies and you realize the mind focus that these women have and the spiritual game they have going on. And you, I think it’s Florence Schovulshin, your word is your wand.
So just, nobody can see this on the podcast. I’m just like holding up her beautiful books.
Like you need to see it.
Can you tell me a thing or two about how you then moved into Focus Pocus?

[29:15] Yeah, it came from becoming a mom and like needing other tools outside.
Like painting didn’t feel as possible and accessible when I first had my daughter.
And yeah, I mean, talk about that threshold too of like this wave of momentum with careers like really taking off, it’s great.
And then having a baby and like one needing to slow down and cocoon and tend to her, that created so much tension.
And like I had to totally like, it was like an abrupt recalibration.
And I feel like I’m still always negotiating that.

[29:54] But I wasn’t painting as often, so it really was the journal came about for me, listening to a lot of audible books and podcasts and about mindset, and just the power of belief and the stories we’re telling ourselves.
I just became a student of that as well, and recognizing that this was a superpower of a lot of the women that were in, what she said. They just were able to rewire their belief systems and thought patterns in.

[30:26] Such a way and have such a tenacious focus on their goals. That really stood out to me.
And I was like, how did they do that? The world might be telling them one story about who they are and what they’re capable of. And they were able to create a new story and take different actions and do things that were unprecedented for their time. It really was like this very deliberate intention setting, this focus. And so I really wanted to study and explore that.
And that’s what I did. I just started reading a lot and listening. And it also was a way for me to stay afloat and help me through motherhood, which was really intense. I wasn’t expecting that.
Surprise, surprise. I mean, it’s hard to know until you’re in it and you just have a baby that never sleeps and cries a lot. And you’re like, oh my God. But I really started practicing, changing up the narrative and trying not to feel like a victim of it. And then I started a journaling practice. I’ve always loved journaling as much as I’ve loved painting and creating.

[31:34] I’ve kept diaries since I was able to write, like I still have my little third grade diaries and I had like a squiggly pen and I would like write about all the boys I was in love with or how I was feeling.
And so journaling became another tool, another friend during those beginning years of motherhood. And…

[31:57] There’s something about having like a template or a container or a routine that feels so, doable and not overwhelming.

[32:06] So that’s what I created and experimented with. And that’s how focus folks came to be.
I was like, you know, I just need something like I don’t, I don’t feel like I have time to do the whole yoga routine or all the things I just need something to focus my, my mind and my energy and my efforts every day, like something I can return to. And I only have 10 minutes, but I told myself 15 minutes, like, what can I do? And that’s what Focus Focus became was just this format with… I think there’s like 10 journaling prompts in there that I practiced often to just see how it shifted me and allowed me to just be with what was or what is.
Focus on some gratitude, focus on what I wanted to feel or move toward like the North Star for the day. And then have a mantra affirmation, like an anchor because I love words. I love quotes, obviously. And that helped just orient me every day. And it was such a powerful simple practice. And I shared it with all my friends and they helped me wordsmith and edit. I was like, try this, okay, this is a new format.
And then, yeah, it became a journal and the whole series and I just feel like it’s the next possible way.

[33:23] To be mindful every day.
And in a beautiful way too, I loved, you know, I had fun with the watercolor art and I wanted it to feel like playful and it actually looks like artwork I did in middle school on my different diaries and journals.
When I pulled those out, I’m like, oh, this is really letting my like.

[33:39] Yeah, middle school Timothy come out and play.
So beautiful.
Yeah, I have. There is one one or two pages where there is room for.
Us, the journalers to also draw in. I was like, Ooh, I have to draw instead of write.

[33:55] They’re so good though. So I’ll just say to the listeners that if you want to find, any of Kimathi’s work, she has a website which we’ll post. And I also just love following her on Instagram because as she mentioned, the ink, when I said watercolor and ink is that she really writes in a way that makes whatever the phrases that she’s sharing really stand out and have a feeling to it. And then there’s art put to it and it’s just, it’s so beautiful. So all of the things we’re mentioning will be in the notes. You can find them, purchase them. I love having that. So she said also just for my girls to look through or to like read a page with my girls. And then we’re moving towards the book that’s coming out.
Is it November 7th?
It is. Great. And this will launch on the 14th. So it will be available. And maybe what we could say is that yesterday was a day that we were supposed to that we were planned to record this podcast, but we just had a whole another day. I planned I pulled a card for our podcast day together yesterday. And it says today is a really good day. You’re in the flow. Problems are solved quickly and easily.
Helpful people show up for you and unexpected gifts fall into your lap.

[35:17] Kimothy text me and she said, I’m on the way. Cause we did actually plan to make a day out of it. Cause it was your mother’s birthday yesterday. And so it just so happened that the day I was like, can we like, do you want to like sauna and ice bath and then we’ll do, a podcast together. And you’re like, Oh, I put the day aside. It’s my mother’s birthday. I’d love to do something special. And so I just thought this is so perfect. And then she texts me.

[35:47] That her tire blew up on the highway. So we spent part of the day, I drove to where she was about 20 minutes away.
And as any, I don’t know, I’m gonna say as any mother might, it’s like, oh, I should pack some drinks.
I forgot to even bring it out, but I brought some like misting spray to just like make us feel better on the side of the highway and some snacks.
And you had some blueberry muffins And the funny thing where it’s like, helpful people show up for you. Like some other man was looking for his wife on the side road. He’s like, would you like a blueberry muffin?

[36:25] So we hung out on the side of the highway for a bit. Eventually we got back to my place and we do a meditation outside.
And we just kind of like, both of us the night before were up all night with our kids.
So we were both kind of so tired and we just kind of collapsed in nature for a long time.
And by the time we reemerged, it was like not enough time.
Podcast. But yeah, we ordered lunch.
We did do a quick sauna and a quick jump in the freezing cold pool, but it was just such a lovely day and both of us really got to slow down.
And I was, I think we were both reflecting on the way life gives us opportunities to step into the field that we’re creating and you’re creating a book called Wing Woman.
Yesterday, I got to be your wing woman.

[37:22] Could you tell us a little bit more about, yeah, about what brought you to this book and why it could be so powerful for others to like soak in?
Thank you for being my wing woman yesterday. That was so fun.
What a fun redirection.
I mean, for me, what stood out to you is like, be okay with things going a different way. And that.

[37:49] What yesterday was was an opportunity for me to be vulnerable with you and to be held and like nurtured and cared for.
You know and i think that’s the type of community that.
I’m practicing being in like practicing receiving help like having a friend like bring all the snacks and come rescue me from the side of the highway like you know there’s part of me that still think oh no no i’m okay i can like figure it out or uber and.
I think that so represents to the book. So it’s all just ironic and funny and so appreciate you.
Our magical day of redirection. But yeah, the book is extraordinary wing women.
It’s two stories of life altering world changing sisterhood. The idea came from the first book, it just kept showing up and like knocking at my door. And it was like, there are stories here that need to be told. They haven’t been examined, you know, unexamined stories or layers of womanhood that are just crying out. That’s how it felt.
The stories kept emerging as I was researching about all these iconic women throughout history.
And almost, it was like I was peering under the hood of if they were a car. And I was able to peer under the hood and see the engine, what was a major driving force in helping them achieve so much and endure and overcome so much and show up in their fullest expression. It was that they had.

[39:16] Women, they were surrounded by women, whether it was a sister, a mother, a grandmother, a friend, a complete stranger, but they had these networks or these close confidants that they let themselves be held by. And they had these circles. Or sometimes it was just like one or two women.
But for me, I was like, these stories are so fascinating. And they made me cry. I felt just all the emotions. And those were the stories that I was calling friends. Did you know that she had a grandmother that flew across the world to see her? She was like 80. To be on the film set, when she was experiencing imposter syndrome, these women that would just drop everything and like show up like the show-uppers.

[40:01] I just was realizing like how significant that was for all these women and how significant that role is in all of our lives and being that person, you showing up like flat tires by the highway.
Like it can seem like a small gesture and like a small act, but it’s like when you zoom back at those moments, it makes such a difference in those people.

[40:25] And I was, yeah, it just came from the first book and I thought, this is it.
Is the next series of stories that I want to tell and paint. Yeah. And they were like hidden figures. I don’t think these stories are often told. So it actually took a great deal of work and research to mine these stories and put pieces together. And it was like reading through personal letters and correspondence. And I didn’t want to make assumptions. I wanted it to be real, like real factual, like their personal experience. And it was complicated, you know, these stories. And I wanted to include that too, the complexities. But yeah, it’s just all about those stories of the women behind the women. And the book features 30 different stories.
Sometimes it’s best friends, like Julia Child and Avis Stavato, who was with her. For example, Julia and Avis, their story is incredible. Avis helped her write her cookbook, which had over 500 recipes. She helped her test all the recipes, which she was constantly by her side, experimenting, trial and error, perfecting all the recipes. She helped her get the book published, but it took them nine years of back and forth. And they corresponded to when they were living apart.
Julia was overseas. They wrote over 400 letters to one another. She helped her publish that book and it published and then also produced the first TV show where she was like the first TV.

[41:54] Chef personality. And as a woman, like a very conventional, like a various woman, she, Avis helped her do it all. And what was revealed to me is that there are so many, threshold points, breaking points for these women that we don’t commonly see and that their friends or their close people, where just like me and most of us, they were like, I don’t know if I can do this.
Like, is anyone going to care? Is this like a total waste of time?
Like, does this matter? Like, who am I to do this?
Like all those questions that show up definitely showed up for them.
And those are the stories I want to tell because that’s real and it happens for all of us.
And it was really these women they surrounded themselves with that helped them to move past that and to keep going.
And they were these mirrors for them.
Like reminding them who they are and what they’re capable of.
And that just makes all the difference in my life having those women, and definitely in the women that I’ve studied.
When you were in Denver, you said that all of these women were like, let me help you, let me open the door. So again, I just think like what we put our energy on, like what we appreciate appreciates. And as you’re focusing so much on wing women, just, again, like last time when you said I wasn’t trying to like do it to become.

[43:16] You know, known by all I was, but you were steeped in the energy of it. And now you’re steeped in the energy of wing women. And I’m wondering how that’s influenced your circle of friends, what your friendships have become like, like what they look like. Do you, I’m also curious, like, do you circle up with specific women or is it just like whatever calls to you? What is your.

[43:42] Group of friends look like? And like, do you put effort into it? Like what, like how? Yeah. I’m, I’m curious what your experience is, because I think a lot of women feel unsafe in groups of women.
I hosted something like five years ago where I was like, I just want all these amazing women to know each other and meet each other. And one woman who was there was like, this would never be safe. Like, this is a big deal for me.
And so I think you’re touching into another reality that’s possible, but has also been really scary for people who have felt othered and not accepted.
So I’m wondering if you have any thoughts, again, like a small doable step for anyone who’s listening who doesn’t feel like they have their crew yet.
Oh, I’m so glad you brought that up because I don’t wanna say like.

[44:36] Yeah, like I’m circling up all the time, which I am now, but it’s been an evolution.
It’s been a journey. It’s been a practice. Like I say, sisterhood is a practice. It’s a lifestyle.
Definitely for many, including myself, there are a lot of wounds there and it’s complicated.
Beginning with my mother, even in my first friendships, there was a lot to unpack. Even in writing this book, it brought up so much. And I was working with all of it, all of those wounds in our shared history as women and the times we have competed and betrayed one another and left each other out, because it’s all part of our story and our healing and our mending.
And I’m remembering, I always had guy friends. I have three brothers. My mom and I were close, but it was complicated. There was a lot of stuff in between us. And then she passed when I was 25.
So since then, I’ve been working out that mother-woman solo and talking to her from the other side. But that’s been my personal experience is just from a younger age, not really quite trusting women and feeling like guys were just easier. I had all those stories, up until about, yeah, early 30s. I would say when I…

[45:48] It’s been a journey and learning to disarm around other women and work on that.
But I distinctly remember my mother’s blessing when I was pregnant with Luca. And so many women just showed up and I surrendered to being helped, which was new for me. I’m still working on that.
But that was a moment where I felt what was possible when women can circle up like that and just pour into one another. And what is possible when I open up to receiving that type of love and wisdom and witnessing, it was like an electric energy I’ll never forget.
There were so many women, 250 women, just everybody bringing in gifts and poems and personal, stories, just contributing to me, pouring into my cup in a way I’ve never felt in my life.
And I was like crying the whole time because I was like, oh my God, this is a new level of love and belonging that I’ve never had. Yeah, it was amazing. And I hope I channel that energy into this new book because that’s what I want for everyone. I want to experience more of that.

[46:58] It was from that moment on, I was like, oh, what was that? Like, that was so powerful. Oh my goodness, like I need to explore that. So that became another focus of, okay, how do we be with one another? How do I be with women in a new way? Like, that was cool. Like, how do I nurture that?
Like, what’s the format? What feels safe? What’s like, how do we communicate? You know, how do I disarm? And in that process, I did recognize all the fear and all the stories I had, like real terror in my body, like being in circle with other women. And so I always, I did take like some courses and training too with the Global Sisterhood to really learn and study circle, facilitation and what the dynamics can be there. And I’ve explored other studies too.
And then I’ve been hosting or joining circles for the last probably five years now, like women’s circles. And sometimes they’re like shamanic circles. And sometimes it’s just like a more simple format of showing up and everybody shares like an intention and maybe a need they have like a very clear like, I need help with this, support with this.
And this is also what I want to contribute. So it can be a simple format, but there’s so much power in that. And that…

[48:19] Those formats and ways of gathering are also highlighted in my book. I love stuff like that. Oh, that’s awesome.
Yeah. It also shows up in different ways. Activist groups of women have… And in Civil War, they will start with a circle where women get to share their experience and what’s causing them pain and suffering or what’s creating joy in their life. That shared witnessing and circling up is oftentimes like a keystone of like a major movement. It’s like that simple. So I focused on that, the gathering piece, like what does this look like? And I keep integrating that into my life and practicing it in different ways. So I would say you could start by joining like a group.

[49:07] Like Global Sisterhood, and it could be an online thing with strangers, but where the format feels safe to you. Yeah, it doesn’t have to be like people, women you readily know around you. If you don’t have that in your immediate world, there’s definitely like groups you can seek out online. Or maybe it is like an active vulnerability to like talk to some women or family members in your life and say, hey, do you want to like make time for this? Like, I feel like I need something beyond therapy or I need a space to be like heard and seen and dream, like be held in my dreams too, just as much as I am in my wounds, like all of it.
CBT Yeah, I’m hearing that, like I’m hearing, like in my mind, I’m seeing all these different ways where like, if you just go to like, I’m thinking of prioritizing joy and not at the bypassing of the grief. So there are grief circles too. But I’m thinking about how I might put it into my schedule, like that. I might be.

[50:07] I’d be like, I have no time, I can’t do anything, I don’t have to, but if I’m like, this is top priority, then I might make time to go for a walk with a friend or every now and then, usually like once a month, I might put an entire day out where I’m gonna have like that whole day with a friend to go for a hike.
And so even if it’s just once a month, plus like little things sprinkled in, and I was interviewed, maybe it was like five years ago, and he was like, what if people don’t have a group of friends like that? I was like, what if you’d like, if you just go do the thing you love, then you’re gonna bump into somebody else doing the thing you love.
And I love the idea of an online community where you can choose like this online community.
And I am also hearing that as you.

[50:50] Read and feel more into the possibility. So like if someone were to pick up your book and you start reading and feeling into it, it starts feeling possible again, a greater likelihood that you’re going to see and meet other people who are into that. And I have one more reflection, which is.

[51:07] Doubtedly probably at least two or three, but is that when we were in song circle last week, which is quite literally just that we show up every Wednesday and we have a collection of songs that we choose from. And the little kids are also open to sharing one with us if there’s one that they would like us to sing. And then we share our feelings at the beginning and at the end, so we can see how song and emoting shift things. Not that it has to alchemize it from lead to gold, but just to be able to first notice that we have a feeling. And this last song circle, the kids just had so much energy and none of them participated in the song. And I didn’t bring the the art supplies. I usually have some art supplies so they can also… And they’re running around the circle and the women are attempting to sing. And so there’s this dual energy happening.
And at the end, it was really beautiful because each woman was just like, I’m just glad I’m not in it alone. And so I was saying to you yesterday, it’s not the best promotion to come join Song Circle and you’ll just be glad you’re not in the dichotomy alone. But one person shared, like, oh, this is the closest I felt to ritual where I understand that women have circled for generations so that.

[52:25] Whatever they’re feeling and that it might shift moment to moment. They’re experiencing it in the circle and they’re experiencing like kids running around together, like not just alone in a house by themselves isolated. And the other thing that we brought up yesterday, or I was saying to you yesterday is that as I was feeling into this new book of yours, I was seeing a constellation and I was thinking how our society often talks about a star. I’m going to be a star, right? Who’s the star of the show. And that when we talk about wing women, and I’ve also kind of heard you name a little bit on this idea of reciprocity, like what am I going to give to the circle?
What am I going to receive from the circle? Just that there is this giving and taking and not on a perfect, you know, not that it has to be a perfect match, but a constellation is an understanding that we’re in a network and that we don’t stand by ourselves. And.

[53:20] This whole trauma response that many of us had at a young age and we’re kind of trained to have independence over interdependence. I think that this is an unwinding of that and a relearning that we are part of a community and the idea that we could actually like lean on another person, that it might be safe. There are plenty of people where we could say that’s not safe and great, we get to discern it. But I really love just like leaning into it with art, with lived experiences, with words, with stories that you’re bringing forth. So, I just feel like this is such important work. CBT I just love that so much, that reflection and just the visual of the constellation. There’s place for all the stars in the constellation to shine their brightest, but it is a network. And just that feeling that you aren’t alone in it, whether it’s the chaos or the serenity, the bliss, but just being held in the constellation is a totally different experience, right?

[54:16] Totally. And as you just said that, the chaos, which I mentioned in that song circle, or the bliss, there were probably moments of bliss, but I was even thinking of our day together yesterday where we could be like, oh, car broke down on the side. We didn’t get the pocket. But actually, we got to have so many moments, so many shared moments of so many different emotions.
Like there was such a beautiful range and different paces, although mostly slow, and, just too great for to be able to be on our own and love ourselves and all that and to.

[54:58] Really begin to expand on capacity to be witness is such a to be witness to receive.
I feel like that is the medicine that we are most needing at this stage in life.
I think so, yeah.
Yeah, it was a magical day. Just what we needed, not what I needed.
And I was thinking too, just seeing like there’s, on my book cover, there’s butterflies everywhere.
And I know you said you were seeing them yesterday around me, but I just love the symbolism of the butterfly wing within and the thought of the metamorphosis, like the collective metamorphosis that we’re all going through and the rising of the feminine and the idea of being witnessed in the full cycle, not just when you’re out and you look good and everything’s great and you get out there on time and you do the podcast, do the thing, like, I got my stuff together, I’m going to look good in front of this new friend, that kind of thing. But it’s like, oh, everything’s falling apart and this happen and this happens and that allowing to be in wherever you’re at, be the goo, be the mess.

[56:11] And still be in sisterhood, be held in it. I think that’s also part of the magic.
Yeah. All of it. I’m hearing like, be in the goo. And then I’m thinking of all these people who can’t wait to support you with this book who are also, I think this is another part of healing of the feminine, like the healthy feminine is to be excited when you see your sister rising up, like when you see her ready to be seen.

[56:45] That if there’s ever like the jealousy or envy that someone would be like, oh, that just means that like, I also want X, Y, and Z or leaning into like, there’s enough for everyone, whatever it is.

[56:57] But I love the lived experiences of feeling women just be like, fuck yeah.
Like just so excited to see one of their sisters.
You know?
Yeah, the whole constellation lights up. What she’s here to do.
Light bright. Yeah, yeah. Everybody gets to party and celebrate It’s like the whole constellation is brightened up, right?
It’s not just the star. You’re like, oh no, you just cut our network.
And now I feel brighter and we’re all part of it.
And it’s joyful and fun to celebrate.
Yeah.
Like that book launch that I was almost gonna make it to in Denver.
I almost got to party with you. I’m still hoping something happens.
You never know, anything is possible.
And that’s what I keep, you know, one of my favorite quotes is by Virginia Woolf, I dwell in possibilities. It’s just something that lights me up. Like when I can go there, I’m just like a what if person and I love to be around other people. It’s just like, who can dwell in that place and like ideate like, what if, what if, what if, what if this happens?
And in 10 years, 100 years, and I think about the constellation, like lighting up like humanity coming together in all these different ways. And like these threads of our tapestry being mended and fortified and like just the beauty in that. And like, what’s possible when women are like, your win is my win. Oh my God, how can I help you? And it’s not transactional. It’s just like.

[58:19] Hey, my soul sees your soul. And I really, I just, I’m feeling intuiting that I could offer this to you and might benefit you. It’s that kind of, you know, or I I’m opening up to receive, you have something to teach me or give me a show me and I’m opening. It’s like that reciprocity.
But I’m like, wow, where is this going to go in the next 100 years if that’s what we’re moving toward? You know, anything. Anything is possible.

[58:45] I think that’s a great place to pause. I’m like, I don’t want to say close or end, but, just leaning into like the anything is possible. And right before that, we were talking about, what I heard in my, what I saw in my head was like a disco party where we all get to light up.
And I saw that Instagram post of yours from Costa Rica, where you have the butterfly wings on that light up imagining like all these images are coming to my mind. And I’m like, this is just, this is where I want to close out right here. Timothy with bright light, wings on, dancing, and everybody is lighting up around. This is what we’re going to do now. I’m going to bring the party into Portland in Maine. We’re going to dance on the beach. I’m going to order those butterfly wings. You just made me think, I need to celebrate here. Let’s make that happen.
Let’s do that. Okay. I’ll help with that. I’m in. All right, well, thank you so much for coming on today and thank you for spending the day with me yesterday.
And, you know, every time that we’ve gotten together, it’s just always such, such a joy. It’s so easy.
Yeah. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you for, yeah, having me and these conversations and I love who you are and I love getting to know you. I’m so grateful.
Same. It’s so fun. It’s so fun.

[1:00:09] Music.

[1:00:17] Thank you for tuning in. It’s been such a pleasure. If you’re looking for added support, I’m offering a program that’s totally free called 21 Days of Untapped Support.
It’s pretty awesome. It’s very easy. It’s very helpful. You can find it at sarahtacy.com.
If you loved this episode, please subscribe and like. Apparently, it’s wildly useful.
So we could just explore what happens when you scroll down to the bottom, subscribe, rate, maybe say a thing or two.
If you’re not feeling it, don’t do it.
It’s totally fine.
I look forward to gathering with you again. Thank you so much.

[1:00:58] Music.