062 – Jennifer Hunter-Marshall: Daring Greatly

0:05
Hello, welcome. I’m Sarah Tacy. And this is threshold moments, the podcast where guests and I share stories about the process of updating into truer versions of ourselves. The path is unknown. And the pull feels real. Together we share our grief, laughter love and life saving tools. Join us

0:38
Lou threshold moment listeners today I was so excited to sit down with a woman who is in my life. And 15 years ago, we met in 2008. Jenn Hunter-Marshall is an elite athlete with CrossFit and a coach and a wife and a mother. And I’ve always found her to be inspirational and heart centered. We talked about the Man in the Arena, quote from Theodore Roosevelt. And we talked about the idea of Daring Greatly of being willing to put ourselves in the arena to fail over and over again as well as to succeed. Then this comes through both in motherhood and identity and athleticism and in business. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Jenn is chock full of wisdom, and hurt.

1:38
Welcome to threshold moments. My name is Sarah Tacy, and today I have with us, Jen, under Marshall. I could say Jennifer Hunter Marshall. And there’s a part of me that just wants to say, Jen and I did this interview a year ago. And when it was over, and I hit and nothing came up on the computer, nothing said saving document here. And I realized that the whole conversation went unreported. And I felt I don’t know if it was a shame spiral. And Jen was kind enough to say, hey, we did a warm up. And you know, here we are a year later. And so before even the bio, just thank you for your curries and your understanding our pre conversation had a little bit to do with just how human we all are. And so thank you for your generosity with my humanity.

2:35
Thank you. It was a gift to share that time with you a year ago. Nobody else heard it. So it was just for us.

2:43
Yes. So let me introduce you to the listeners. And then we’ll have time to hear directly from you. Jennifer Hunter Marshall is a wife and a mom of two, with a passion for helping others create the best version of themselves inside and out. She is the co owner and head coach of CrossFit garden city in New York. And it’s 14 years I did the math. And then I was like I also look at their website, 14 years, which is a really big deal, which we’ll touch into a little bit in a bit. And Jen is level four crossfit coach, which only a handful of people are. And she also coaches and trains those who are getting their level one and level two certificates. But Jen and I first met at Institute three back in 2008. Both of our husbands now I was not married to Steve then we’re trainers there. And I went there for the summer to work with professional hockey players and some college hockey players. And Jen was in Colorado and she came to the dentist’s every now and then and then they got married and she moved to New York and he I’m just like going on this thing of like an every time that I met you or saw you in the gym, you were just this beam of lights, and energy and love and strength. And your capacity to both, I think sometimes are looked at as opposites, although I think they pair so well of both strength and yoga, and meditation. I’m going to undo like making a five point star here and I was like and you’re an actor, and when I see you either in real life or in the past on Instagram, like dancing and bringing humor. You have just such a beautiful range. And that is something that I remember of you and I think in present time. I see as well

4:52
to welcome you with you everywhere. Thank you so

4:57
in what environments do you feel most alive? have and most able to express yourself fully without having to, without overthinking. What are people going to think? Or is this the right thing?

5:12
So when I think when I’m coaching classes, or coaching seminars, when I’m in front of people, I’m just like, Okay, this is me. But I don’t worry about how it lands, because I’m so grounded and rooted in who Jen is. And so I find that I struggle with that or not struggle. But when I’m one on one with somebody, because of that, I’m not spreading all of that out across many people, when I’m one on one, I’m really dialed in to who I’m in front of, and they may not need like strong cuff chin, they may need a little bit more empathy, more compassion, and then you know, somebody else might need to be tough. It’s not that I’m changing who I am. But I’m trying to create a channel where we do people can communicate and understand each other, if that makes sense. And the right way to communicate to each other versus like throwing up walls, which I feel like, are landmines that we have to navigate through. So I just want to find a way to get past all that, like, I just want to talk to you. What are you about? And how can we be or not be depending on the degree to me, you know, are able to connect, and that’s okay.

6:33
And finding in the trauma resolution work that I do and an alchemical alignment as people work with generational patterns, and they start defrosting to societal structures, that as they find more of their freedom and liberation, there’s often grief and anger for the parts that they were frozen to. And I wonder if that also plays into these conversations where it can be hard to see, this person’s coming from a good place that this person is coming from a good place, and it starts to get stacked and layered with the generations of things that were not okay and are currently not okay, as we start to, like, feel it more.

7:17
Everything, it seems like now needs to be like a soundbite and be definitive, like, right away. Yes. takes time to like, to not dissect, but to break through all the layers like and it seems like, we just don’t have time, everything is moving so fast. And I crave that like moment of just slow down. So we can figure this out. Versus in five minutes, we have to have this result is no. You ask them to get to know somebody could take months, years, you know, and to assume that in an instant, I can know somebody it’s more nuanced than

8:05
I really appreciate you adding that layer about I am. Let’s take it slow. Let’s have some time. Even on on Instagram, how people could take a sound bite and every single comment to feel like a lot to like exist and be seen when we’re looking at sound bites instead of relationships that have developed slowly over time. And

8:31
it’s too easy to in a moment of reading something, comment, but you hadn’t had a thought you just have a initial gut reaction to something versus like, if you really cared, then you’re opening yourself up to a conversation, which then can maybe challenge both of you in a positive way, if done properly. I most often tried to reference the Man in the Arena, which I found so profound. We care because we’ve been through it, we know. And so those are the opinions that matter. The ones that don’t matter are the people who have never been in this position, because you’re doing something that’s hard, right? And the only way that we can get better as a coach as a human is by doing hard things and seeing how that shapes us and makes us evolve change whatever chrysalis that was, whenever that is, but we need that otherwise you stuck. I

9:35
pulled up the quote and I just feel like it’s worth reading. It was maybe the first page and Brene Browns daring greatly. And it’s a quote from Theodore Roosevelt. And I think it’s worth reading because, as you said, it’s it’s something to really think about as we put ourselves in challenging situations that are stretching us and everybody else is watching might have commentary for the Man in the Arena. It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat blood, who strives valiantly, who airs who comes short again and again. Because there is no effort without error, and shortcoming. But who does actually strive to do the deeds, who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause? who at the best knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who never know victory nor defeat. Theodore Roosevelt, Hmm, good, Lord.

11:11
That’s good. That’s good. No, good. I get let’s do it. Everything I you know, inspired me, I think I’m gonna use that as my closing remarks gonna memorize it. You know, we have it in our office, one of our offices at the gym. Just to remind ourselves and those who dare to read it, that you’ll have successes and your failures, but you got to go both those extremes, like playing safe in the middle is not the place to be. And it’s okay. You learn in your failures. I find I’ve learned more from my failures than I have my successes. It’s great to knock it out of the park the first. But how did I do that? I don’t know. Yeah. up like that didn’t work. Okay, we’ll do that again.

12:00
Last year, I watched your we the women, and I feel like this can tie in as well. And it’s a really good one, if any, we’ll put it in the show notes so people can listen. And what I took away from it was this idea of preparation versus burden. And I’m wondering if you could tell us a little bit about your father’s history. And so you were saying that as you grew up, you were told you had to work twice as hard for half as much and how that was really true for him. And, again, I’m like, what is on for you what you would leave behind and what you would want to pass on to your kids.

12:38
Okay, my dad, he’s retired Army colonel, he was Ranger Pathfinder, numerous awards and recognition infantry soldiers served in Vietnam, his story that I share with a lot of people just in terms of his daring greatly and what he overcame as he wanted to be a ranger, which is an elite army soldier, akin to like a Navy SEAL. And you have to be able to swim. Like you go to Ranger School. And that’s one of the things it’s not just get in and doggy battle, like jump off platform with all your gear, that type of situation. But my father grew up in Florida, during segregation, in Jacksonville, Florida, specifically. And during that time, because of segregation, he didn’t have access to the pool. They have the public pool because it was white only. Even the beach at that time in Jacksonville was white only. And they didn’t have at that time was like color was a term. That was just the time there were colored beaches, but he didn’t have access in terms of transportation to get to those places. He lived in Jacksonville. As for he went to school in West Virginia ROTC and he saw someone who was a ranger, and he’s like, I want that. And I talked to my dad about it. Years later, and he said he saw that as the distinction and he wanted to distinguish himself in that way. When he had the opportunity to go, he went. And he failed this test the first time. I was like what happened? And he said he jumped off the I think it was the plane sank like a brick. He called it negative buoyancy. It made a point that he didn’t want to go back he was determined. And so he swam every day. I still can’t believe that thing. He said like eight hours a day. He was like, Oh, you didn’t want to give up. And and he passed. He became a lead one of the first black officers to be a ranger instructor the patch that he hasn’t back in his cat identified him as a weak swimmer. But I have to imagine that it isn’t the best swimmer that makes it into that elite unit. It’s the one that works really determined, you know, you to be able to swim, that’s part of the requirement. But the man that continues to go back and go back and wants it that bad, versus like, Oh, this is easy. Perhaps, you know, or that we did out weeds people out, like, if you can’t do it how easy it is to act failed, I’m going to do something else. But if you want things so badly to dare so greatly even wanted that, that he committed himself to it. And so that’s what I come from working hard. And so my dad, I believe, not my mom, although she, you know, Tia, they said, you have to work twice as hard to get half as much. And I remember being a kid and not really understanding what that meant. I also grew up in Europe as my dad was serving, and didn’t experience. I guess, nowadays, we call it racism until I came back to the states and trying to figure out how I fit in to what was going on. Because I didn’t fit the narrative of what like, black people were supposed to be like, if there was this terminology, we use, like narrative or something. Because I didn’t view myself as a being part of something in that way. I always viewed myself as Jen. First versus this is a community, we call it that that I’m associated with, and just did what I did. I liked schools, I worked hard at school, and I did well. And I knew that based on my parents experience, doing well in school would give me the opportunity to do other things. I also learned that nobody is going to give anything to you have to earn. And that’s how I live my life. And that’s partly where the story kind of changes a little bit in that I didn’t grow up during segregation, where things were supposed to be separate and equal, but they weren’t. And then when that changed what that did for my parents that had already been in place when I was growing up, I still had to deal with the negative consequences of that affirmative action, I would say where people look at you like, Oh, you’re here just because and people don’t see that side. They see like, Oh, somebody’s given this because we’re going to try to make up for some slights of the past perhaps. And yes, that can be true. But it can also be true that people work hard and they earn where they are. And to claim that anything that I’ve accomplished, from my hard work was ill gotten because how I may appear, robs me of my dignity. And so that’s what I want to impart to my children, the courage to be who they are to work hard and earn what they get. And to be strong enough, there will be some naysayers to be like, Oh, you’re this, that’s why you have that. And to be like No, to stand in your power, and be like, I work for this and not to take anything because of that either. That’s hard to because you’re offered maybe offered an opportunity because hey, we want to give you this because we need this. That’s taking advantage of you in another way. Like you make your way always. And then you are clear that everything is earned and nothing given to you. Whatever anybody else has to say about that as their business. But if you know that if I know, I work twice as hard, or more than I earned it. Nobody can take that away from me. I might not like that statement. Yeah. And maybe it’s not just me working. Everybody needs to work twice as hard now because I’m a black woman. I don’t want to use that as an excuse. I want to work twice as hard because I want to know that I can do that job. Right, and that nobody can deny that I can do it. That’s a quote that I love. It’s like be so good. They can’t ignore you. So that dropped the mic. That’s it, period. Yeah, yeah. Okay, like my children. Like, this is what you gotta do. Distinguish yourself, like your grandfather, distinguished himself. There gonna be times and I don’t want to live in a fairy tale where everything is perfect. It is not. But what are those things that you can control? And you work within that and create for yourself.

19:45
I would love for you to talk to us a little bit about the balance of now you are a mother of two. We can talk about this idea of working hard and working so hard that nobody can take anything from you. So it’s not that then you don’t work. hard, it’s more just and where are the pauses? And they imagined that motherhood as possibly called in more need for pauses. So, if you could talk to us at all about the pauses that you include within the hard work.

20:17
Yes. So in terms of mothering, I find that had to take more pauses. Now, as kids have gotten older and more, I won’t say independent, or just, they’re becoming who they are. And that can be challenging, because we can butt heads because we’re different. And I need to honor who they are becoming, but also still remain the parent and you’re the child. And we have like this relationship as certain ways that it goes. And so when I find it, usually it’s a physical reaction with me when I feel myself getting tight. And about to, you know, and sometimes I’m guilty of it, I’m like, had to raise my voice. But I tried to talk through it and communicate to my kids like, Mommy is frustrated, not with you, my children is who you are, but with what you are doing right now. And I didn’t take a minute you take a minute to and, you know, there’s four and six, so they could understand some of that, but my job is even when I’m losing it, is to never have them think it’s about who they are. If that makes sense. That’s the trauma that I would not wish on any child that Oh, my mom do a scream at me. No, no, that’s not what I want. And so those pauses come like this morning when people weren’t getting ready for school. And then I look at my self in that moment, like, what can I do differently? Like, okay, I’m going to make his lunch at nighttime before, because I know, he’s going to be slow getting dressed, I’m gonna be late for school. So make the lunch. I enclose before, they know, I’m gonna hit snooze. So I’m really tired. I’m doing a lot of things. How can I help myself out? Do that? What else can I do? So then there’s less of that friction or having to take a moment because I’ve done all that I can do? And they’re still going to be themselves and try to support them in that. I don’t know if that makes total sense for that’s what I’ve been trying to work on. So I’m not like, frustrated all the time, which could be a state of like threshold as a mother. Yeah, that’s right. It was like, why can somebody just do one thing that I want right now? Yeah. It still had those moments, but dealing with them better by taking that pause and just like, okay, what can I do different? Doesn’t change this moment, but it will change the next one. We’re

22:50
just always in the arena. Yes. All right, like as a mug because, yeah, but just that idea of failure. And I think I don’t want to parade this around as like something I’m super proud of. And I’m thinking about getting on a call with you at 10am. And I was like, Oh, by then I got up at six. I did my meditation I did a 20 minute peloton, just because that’s like, what a five minute shower and then it’s seven. And it’s breakfast. And it’s, we now lay out the clothes the night before because my one of my daughters wanted to change her outfits, like three times before school. And so yeah, so they pick them up at night is the same thing. Like I prepare the shake I’m gonna have now I put it like all the ingredients that aren’t perishable into a ziploc so that because my much slower in the morning, and my brain trying to pick out like, what Oh, yes. So there’s the preparation. And this morning, I turned on music and had that like, playing in the background. And I didn’t light a candle. But sometimes I’m doing all the things to like, how do I make this environment the most? And then what do I do when there’s just like the No, I’m not going and the wishing. And just being real not like the wishing I was like these things could be like the simple things in life like brushing the teeth of a hair, the clothes, like if the simple things are hard. It definitely demands more pauses to like, stay present and calm and you know, not take my frustrations out on my kids and understand that there are boundaries and there are things that need to happen. And yeah, if

24:36
it didn’t go as planned, it’s like letting go like that moments pass now, like when I know we’re going to be okay, first child success. We made it to school on time. Second one, not so good. And, like, I can’t change the fact that we’re going to be late whether I’m upset or not. Yes. So why be upset like okay, just embrace it work. Hear, tell the teacher like, look, it’s not like, we’re trying to be laid on purpose. It just happens. I’m doing my best. And

25:08
as an adult, I think that maybe you can relate to this, like as an adult, I take great pride in being consistent and being on time and being accountable. And having children kind of can throw a wrench in that wheel real quick. And to not, not hang my value as a human on that just, oh, yeah, here I am, in the arena, doing the best I can. And I love what you said about me being angry or upset isn’t actually going to get us there on time. And I think that is one of the biggest challenges. There’s something in hand in hand parenting where they talked about, can you then become playful? Because I think in a lot of adults, my answers like if I raise my voice, if I’m louder than they’ll listen to me more. And one of the methods there is like, can you drop into a playful mode and get down on the ground and connect before you correct. And I think this even goes back to the beginning of our conversation. When we’re talking about one on one and connecting from the heart, instead of just fighting over to different perspectives that aren’t meeting and they’re butting heads to be able to come to I will connect first. And then the correct might just be once someone seems feel seen and validated. There’s just more ease that follows. But the fearful brain part is like, Well, what about does it?

26:39
And that may always be there. But what you said it makes me think about the connecting first with our kids before the correction, like why are they doing this right now? Yeah, I don’t think it four and six, how can I just ruin mommy’s day, that’s not the thought. They want to connect in some way. And that’s why the acting out or delaying or whatever they’re doing, may be coming from. And then is a mom have to take a second and pause because I’m looking at the clock and all these things that I have to do. And the most important thing that I need to do in this moment is connect with my child. Right? Sometimes we like all these, oh my goodness, we’re gonna be late. What’s the teacher gonna think of me and Baba, Baba Baba. And I’m like, whatever they think, like, my job is to make sure I raised a fully functioning, but yes functioning but just a human being that knows who they are their love. They’re careful that they’re resilient. And I’m the one who has to teach them that. So if I’m all over the place, or not paying attention to them, giving them the things that they need in that moment, what are they going to be when they’re done? That’s my job, to be a guide, and to give space for them to discover who they are. But like you said, there’s limits to that. Because there has to be because you don’t know everything little person.

28:14
When I was just thinking like, Who would they be if we didn’t connect with them? And is thinking about what Jerry Molitor has said to us about how hard it is for adults who were raised in a generation where independence withheld as like the highest thing you could have your kid be to be independent. And to follow the rules and to listen, and this is how success is going to come is that as adults were less likely to reach out to others when we’re having a hard time, we’re less likely to ask for help, we’re less likely to reach out to community. And if children learn that they can connect with their parents, and that when they’re in distress that their parent will slow down and connect that as an adult, it’s not that they lose the ability to do things, they might actually take more dares. But if they fail, and if they struggle, when they’re in the dark hole, or when they’re scared, they actually know that it’s okay to reach out to a friend or to a parent. And it’s something that a few people I know who offer their phone numbers to clients to say like when you’re dysregulated call, we’ll do a five minute call just so that you have the practice of reaching out to a regulated person, that their phones are silent because most of us don’t have that pattern and that it’s okay to reach out. It’s actually like, you know, I can sometimes feel myself it’s like the last thing I want to do is talk about what I’m upset about. The last thing I want to do is like amplify that and as I get in the practice of reaching out to others. I have amazing parents who I do talk to when I’m upset but I still like it’s still a practice for me to reach out and connect with somebody when I’m upset because I don’t want to bring anyone down. And I don’t want to burden anyone, and how cool that our kids are learning that they’re not bringing us down. Thanks for you know, thanks for making the connection and starting. That’s

30:19
very true. I had a moment this weekend where I had to reach out to a friend and my husband was working away gone three nights, and everything else that I had to do on top of that, and I just had in mind, like, you know what, I have to just get it out, I don’t matter if like anybody just the amount of money to lose, listen, nothing has to be solved, I just need to be like, blah, then I felt so much better. Nothing got solved all the issues that I talked about. But just knowing that you have someone to talk to you, I think is huge. And doing that with your children early on. Did they know they can talk to you about things that don’t mean anything now. So when bigger and things may mean a lot more higher stakes, they talk to you. And that’s a relationship that I want.

31:12
To Foster’s Simon Sinek just said something about, you know, he’s really into looking at all the studies were so you and I could just say like, Oh, that feels good. And I felt better. And he said, from what he has learned is that all we need is eight minutes, we need eight minutes with someone we love or care about. And wonder if it could even be a stranger on the street eight minutes to share what’s going on. And our nervous system begins to regulate. And some people don’t love the word regulate either starts to come into resonance simply by sharing for eight minutes. So he said when he reaches out to a dear friend and says Do you have eight minutes? They know. I mean, sometimes it’s like, Oh, good. It’s not gonna be an hour long call I can pick up I don’t have to like, Oh, my friend needs eight minutes. Like, it’s also like an SOS call a little bit like, do you have eight minutes? And that feels like such a small doable piece. I love that as an offer, maybe something I would use with Steve, my husband or my dear friends this idea of Do you have eight minutes? I love that it’s such a small doable piece and the idea and the practice that that could be so resourcing and the idea of interdependence, instead of solely independence. Right, really beautiful thing that I think we’re moving back to, yes. When you transitioned to becoming a mother, I’m curious how that changed your relationship with work and working out.

32:57
It’s funny, I didn’t put too much thought into it. What was going to happen to my life afterwards, because we’ve worked so hard to get pregnant to seven years, we’ve struggled with infertility and all of that and I didn’t, all my resources were put into that they didn’t think of like the during the after, and had very traumatic birth, both my children had preeclampsia and hospitalized twice with that and scary. And then fitness which had always been my safe place my refuge. That’s where I went. That’s how I identified myself. That wasn’t available to me for a while. And then I wasn’t able to get back to where I was and then what do I do, and I struggle with that for a long time. And not until this past year struggling with several injuries that I finally like let go of that pressure on myself to be whatever it was that I thought I was trying to be like Jen, just relax. Just be healthy. And whatever your fitness looks like, if you’re doing that, that’s okay. Because I have a shoulder injury now. And maybe I had to have that happen and some other things happened for me to pay attention. They finally say hello, hello. And I’m like no pushing through it. I gotta do this. I gotta do this, and I can do everything. And then another injury. Hello, hello. And finally I’m like, Okay, you’re talking to me. And I gotta listen now. And so I guess my fitness hosts. So motherhood but post pregnancy has been more of like listening and being more in tune trying to I’m still try. There are moments where I’m like, Jen, you really shouldn’t do this. You really should do something else. And like okay, and it’s okay, and it’s fine. And I go what other people are gonna think not their problem, not your problem what other people think just do Do what your body needs right now. That’s the journey I’m on right now trying to find that balance between what I need and what I want. Right? Because what I want to override and are my default, and that wasn’t what I needed.

35:21
I have an episode on moving from familiar to optimal. Yeah. And what’s interesting about what you just said is, when I say familiar to optimal, optimal to me could have this like shiny elements to it. But what you just said is that balance between Okay, so what I’m hearing is the balance between what you want and what is actually optimal. And what you want may have been familiar to what you could have had in the past. And I’m loving the idea that optimal could be less or optimal, could be more help. Or, even though I know in myself, if I’m being really honest, I’m like, I will, I still want more energy, I’m gonna go get my blood tested, I’m gonna see what’s missing here, like, things that I want, which isn’t like to throw away all the things I want, but to be in tune with our bodies to listen. And the moment by moment changes, like what is optimal, and you say, the ego coming in of like, oh, Jen isn’t doing X, like she used to do. And I can imagine, as such an elite level, athlete and trainer, this would be such a good playground for your ego and your soul to find a place where it’s like, All right, here’s a place where we can have a hard conversation with each other, it may take some time, at times, and one on one conversations that may take time it themselves. And that’s okay. And hopefully, I’ll be able to share the experience with other women and they may find themselves in the same place. And maybe when we let go of a desire to be a certain way, we find our true path. You know, like, I feel like, so much of energy was put into something that I thought I needed to do that once I pulled back, because the injury that opened up space for other things to exist, that didn’t have space, because so much of my energy was dedicated to this thing. So there’s a blessing, like there’s something to be learned and everything. And so you just have to be willing to find it. What is it? And it might not always come to light right away. But that’s what I discovered. I’m like, wow, and more present in my acting more available. So my acting teacher said that, and I was like, wow, I know it sucks to be injured. But your thing has been great. Yes. Yeah. Was like, okay, sorry, I’m moving around here. They know, I have to like, yeah, we can, we can. Yeah, all day. I know. Well, it was so great to have you on the podcast today. And I really, really appreciate it. I’m maybe gonna leave with the idea that when some chapters close other things open, and the idea of when we let go of the things that we’re holding on to so tight, that it may open space for something more beautiful that we couldn’t have imagined, where we couldn’t have even worked twice as hard to get it right. We couldn’t like because we’re letting go of the thing that maybe something new is something that we receive that we didn’t know was possible.

38:42
Right? Exactly. Our crystal is I moved, I put in everything we talked about.

38:52
Thank you so much, Jen,

38:53
you as well as there are by.

39:08
Thank you for tuning in. It’s been such a pleasure. If you’re looking for added support. I’m offering a program that’s totally free called 21 days of untapped support. It’s pretty awesome. It’s very easy. It’s very helpful. You can find it at Sarah tacey.com. If you love this episode, please subscribe and like apparently it’s wildly useful. So we could just explore what happens when you scroll down to the bottom, subscribe rate, maybe say a thing or two. If you’re not feeling it, don’t do it. It’s totally fine. I look forward to gathering with you again. Thank you so much.