066 – Rachel Halder: Purity Culture & People Pleasing

Sarah Tacy [00:00:06]:
Hello. Welcome. I’m Sarah Tacy, and this is Threshold Moments, a podcast where guests and I share stories about the process of updating into truer versions of ourselves. The path is unknown, and the pull feels real. Together, we share our grief, laughter, love, and life saving tools. Join us. Hello. Welcome to Threshold Moments.

Sarah Tacy [00:00:42]:
I’m very excited today to introduce you to Rachel Halder. Today, we talk about purity culture as a trauma that began in the eighties and the way that it could affect women in their connection to their bodies and sexuality, and how also silence of certain topics can be the seed of shame and disconnection from self. We talk about sexual liberation and not just in learning a new, the Neo Tantric versions of how to open ourselves, but also to incorporate somatic trauma resolution work so that we don’t go into hyper fixing to collapse. Last, we speak about the sneaky abusive dynamics that can happen within spiritual self awakening communities and couples. At the end, we briefly get into the topic of merging, and we’ve decided we’ll do a mini musing on that because it deserves more time and energy than we had today. But I just found this conversation really insightful around the ways that people pleasing and perhaps even over attuning and codependency can play into so many realms of our lives that could end us in relationships that slowly drain our energy and in sexual partnering as well, both with ourselves and others. That is not actually true in which masking is still taking place. I think there are so many elements here that I could see for myself where I could say, ah, I could see that in my life or I could look at this and reflect on this.

Sarah Tacy [00:02:32]:
And as I’m saying that, I’m like, Gosh, that is also part of the dynamic in which somebody who is very eager to continue to learn about themselves and improve upon themselves could lose themselves in somebody else’s train of thought of how to be better. And so we could even just take a little pause and remember to continue to come back to ourselves whenever possible and to check-in with ourself as what is true for us, what is true for us now. And anytime we need always checking in to see like, what is health, what is already well in me? So without further ado, here’s my conversation with Rachel Halter. And as I said, we will do a follow-up conversation on the topic of merging. Enjoy. Hello, and welcome to Threshold Moments. Today, we have Rachel Halder with us. She is commonly called Ray and is a somatic trauma resolution practitioner, writer, thought leader, coach, and guide.

Sarah Tacy [00:03:50]:
Rae is a seasoned practitioner certified in 10 different healing healing and pleasure goes far beyond the typical somatic experiencing principles. Ray currently lives in the mountains in New Mexico, the original home of the Tiwa. Ray and I have been in alchemical alignment together for and I just feel like saying, like, many years. It feels like a long time.

Rachel Halder [00:04:23]:
Almost 3 years.

Sarah Tacy [00:04:24]:
Yeah. We’ve gotten to partner together in exchanges and share with each other different parts of our lives. But, professionally, we haven’t done anything like this before, but I have kind of from afar and on Instagram seen your work. And I would also recommend I’ll have a link in the bio. We usually do this at the end, but I’ll have a link, excuse me, in the show notes to her Instagram because I will also say that I really appreciate how great you are with words and how you can so distinctly speak of nuance between things that are often over coupled. Sometimes, for me, when I think about posting to Instagram, I immediately get exhausted. Maybe I have a freeze response to it. And so when I look at your page, it is just filled with so much useful perspective and knowledge that I think anybody could really benefit from.

Sarah Tacy [00:05:18]:
So I’m gonna throw that out there as well.

Rachel Halder [00:05:21]:
Yeah. Thank you. And thanks for that reflection. That’s, yeah, kind of soothing to hear. Because I also actually have crazy responses around Instagram myself. So

Sarah Tacy [00:05:29]:
You do? I would know that from I’m like, wow. How does she do that? Because the things that we learn and the things that we work with are sometimes so hard to put words to. So to see you put words to it over and over again with just a slightly different shift in perspective each time, I’m really in awe. And I’m like, she’s able to just to make that happen. So from over here, I’m just in appreciation of that skill because I believe that you think it’s a skill. Thank you. When we were talking before the show started, you I love that I just called this a show. Before the show started, you were sharing with me that some of your work started in your graduate work around is it Christianity and sexuality? Or Yeah.

Rachel Halder [00:06:21]:
Yeah. So I wrote my master’s thesis on the suppression of sexuality and naming it a form of spiritual trauma. And I was particularly, yeah, looking at the Christian church. I grew up Mennonite, so I grew up in a pretty, like, insular Christian denomination, very small denomination. But I was really looking at purity culture and, like, what it had done to so many people. And, like, I was also really exploring somatic work myself at the time. And I was doing a lot of, like, sexuality practices, kinda more in the, like, neo tantra world. But I was, like, really exploring, like, my own body and my own sexuality, my own blocks in my sexuality.

Rachel Halder [00:07:04]:
And as I started talking to different peers or exploring these conversations with people, I started realizing so I had had sexual abuse as a child, so I kind of assumed all my trauma was like that. Like, oh, well, I was sexually abused, and that’s why this intimacy in this way is hard for me. But I started talking to people who had never had, like, quote unquote abuse, like physical tangible abuse in their childhood or had never had, you know, something that they would qualify as trauma, but they had the exact same symptoms that I had. And so I was like, what’s going on here? And as I started exploring it, I was like, oh my gosh. Like, purity culture is a form of trauma for many, many people. And growing up with that kind of dogmatic belief around this part of a body actually interrupts a lot of people’s development into, like, holistic sexuality and, like, being connected to themselves and being connected to that, you know, that expression of themselves as well.

Sarah Tacy [00:08:06]:
Can you describe purity culture?

Rachel Halder [00:08:08]:
Yeah. So purity culture, it was something that I believe it was in the eighties. And it’s it came from, like, the conservative, more evangelical church. And it’s I mean, you know, sexuality is like sex before marriage, that kind of thing. Hasn’t actually always been, like, a dominant force in the Christian church. But in the eighties, it began as, like, a big campaign. And things like dads giving their daughters purity rings started happening, or there would be these purity balls where all these high school girls would go to, like, a purity ball and they would, like, pledge their allegiance to, like, God or Jesus Christ. And, like, they would they would essentially, like would say, like, I won’t have sex until I’m married.

Rachel Halder [00:08:52]:
There’s also books that were written about this. I’m I’m like, the details are are blanking out of my mind, but I actually have a free ebook online. It’s, like, very in-depth. It’s, like, over a 100 pages long about all of this. So if anyone wants to read it, they can download it for free on my website. But, yeah, there were these books. Like, a book called I Kissed Dating Goodbye was, like, this huge, like, all the rage. And so people were studying this in youth groups and were, like, working with it.

Rachel Halder [00:09:19]:
And, essentially, the premise is you need to remain pure

Rachel Halder [00:09:23]:
or you’ll go to hell, like, if you really distill it

Rachel Halder [00:09:26]:
to the bottom line. And it kinda made virginity into the absolute pinnacle of being connected to God or Christ, and anything beyond that, not okay. But it was also very structured towards the woman. Like, the woman needs to be clean. The woman needs to wear conservative clothes. If a man pursues a woman, it’s her fault.

Sarah Tacy [00:09:47]:
I am over here with slight chills because I definitely remember post college, and I had this really big divide in my mind of how can I be sexual and spiritual? Like, I thought that they were 2 different things. And I was fighting these urges and these desires I had and what would it mean to hook up with someone. Then if I hooked up with someone, then I wasn’t a spiritual being. And I really think I’m the spiritual being who’s then I was really more into yoga than I was into church. And I did grow up going to church every Sunday. So I’m thinking about the way when we live in a certain water, like, even if it wasn’t said directly to me in a specific way of this is the highest you can hold on to, I really had that split in me for a long time. That felt that losing my virginity and not even just losing my virginity. I don’t wanna put it just in that, but that there was a split between sexuality and spirituality as opposed to that it could be an inlet into knowing myself more, knowing the divine more, knowing connection more.

Sarah Tacy [00:10:57]:
It was completely extracted for a while, and I had to find my way back. And yeah. So that that is interesting to me. And I feel like you said something in one of your posts that I read on Instagram about how sometimes it was more the silence than the damning of the things.

Rachel Halder [00:11:14]:
I grew up, like, on the periphery of this purity culture thing. Like, I got kind of ensnared into a Baptist youth group for just like a year of when I was, like, 15 years old and they were really into it. So, like, it wasn’t actually my home church that really, like, promoted it strongly. But what I recognized in my own upbringing and in the Mennonite culture that I was in is actually there was just, like, a complete silence around sexuality. And a child equates silence with shame. If something is not talked about, a child assumes that it’s bad. That’s actually how, like, a child’s brain develops. And so if this entire thing, you know, this entire whole topic is just like there’s, like, dead silence about it, it’s pretty natural for one to assume, okay, then that’s just, like, a bad thing or not okay or there’s, like, secrecy around this or there’s some reason why I shouldn’t talk about it.

Rachel Halder [00:12:12]:
You know? It’s like it has a whole film, like a layer over it. And then, also, then if sexual abuse happens or inappropriate touch or whatever it might be, then those things fall under that, the veil of silence.

Sarah Tacy [00:12:27]:
Wow.

Rachel Halder [00:12:27]:
And it’s like, okay. We don’t talk about this.

Sarah Tacy [00:12:30]:
It has been said so many times that shame grows and thrives with silence. Mhmm. But the way that you just said it about when something is not spoken about when we’re children, that that almost, like, plants the seed of shame. I don’t know why that feels so massive to me right now, but as a parent of 2 young girls, that feels like one of the more important things I’ve heard.

Rachel Halder [00:12:57]:
Yeah. Thank you. You’re welcome. That was something that I don’t even know where I heard it from or if I heard it from somewhere, but it was something I believe that I wrote in that book of just, like, really recognizing how children’s development happens and like, oh, yeah. It’s not even, like, talking about sexuality as if it’s a bad thing. It’s just not talking about it, period. Actually, really disrupts people’s development and growth.

Sarah Tacy [00:13:23]:
Right. And I imagine instead of having, like, the talk, if it is part of life and to pull from alchemical alignment, small doable pieces over time where it’s integrated with questions and answers and, like, it’s just built in over time. Then it’s not like, now we’re gonna talk about the big Sarah thing, and then we’re gonna talk about it again.

Rachel Halder [00:13:43]:
Exactly. I mean, the talk is kind of insane if you think about it. Like, why would we ever just have one conversation about something so primal and so human? And then, like, even that, the talk, like, has so much shame routed in it. And I’m so impressed, like, watching certain friends of mine parent and how, like yeah. It’s just, like, part of it. Like, they just weave it in. Even things like one of my friends was like, oh, yeah. My kid found my sex toy and was like, what’s this? And I was like, oh, it’s for mommy’s time with her Yoni.

Rachel Halder [00:14:15]:
It’s when she has fun with it and, like, just left it at that. And it’s just like, oh my gosh. What a fascinating world to grow up in where that’s just casually mentioned to a 5 year old. And, you know, it doesn’t need more, but it doesn’t also need to be enshrouded in shame. Or, like like, even, like, with him, like, discovering like, touching himself and being like, hey, honey. Love for you to do that, but please just go to your room. Like, we don’t touch our genitals in front of other people. Like, we do it it’s something we do in privacy, but it’s not wrong or bad.

Rachel Halder [00:14:47]:
But, like, you know, if you wanna do that, you have your bedroom to go to and shut the door and you can do it there. And it’s just like, wow. Revolution.

Sarah Tacy [00:14:56]:
Yeah. I had Dana Myers on the podcast. I believe hers came out in February. And she is a woman who grew up with that. And she had a father who came to her when she was 13 who sat down and was just like, I respect you as a sexual being. It wasn’t the talk because her mom had already said, like, you know, honey, sometimes, the way we can self pleasure or the way we can be with ourselves could be even more fulfilling than with somebody else. And it wasn’t to say this than that, but she was the first person that I’ve met who spoke so openly and so confidently about self pleasure and sensuality with zero shame. She wasn’t trying you know the opposite when you’re, like, trying to overcome something and you’re, like, so far and you’re really trying to show that it doesn’t bother you? She was just like I was like, oh, this is a woman who has like, this is her natural resting seat.

Sarah Tacy [00:15:49]:
Mhmm. It it wasn’t like fighting through shame to get here, And it’s just really amazing. And this is actually not originally why we asked you to come on the podcast. Although, there was a part because of the sexual liberation that I was like, oh my gosh. Tell me about that. So maybe where we could go is if you wouldn’t mind talking a little bit about nervous system work with sexual liberation and people pleasing? And then we might get into the next conversation about certain dynamics that we may land in.

Rachel Halder [00:16:21]:
So I started my, like, coaching career. I don’t know. It seems like a silly wait. I don’t know why that seems silly. But I started it around sexuality. Me with clients and the more I kept uncovering my own layers, I started recognizing that I needed a way deeper background in deep trauma work, which took me kind of down that road. And so then once I I actually took some time off from teaching sexuality work, like, a couple years, 3, I think, almost, because it felt like I can’t do this from the place that it’s mostly done as you see most people offering like sex coaching. It just felt inauthentic for me because I had so many freeze dynamics and I had so much fawning and so much of this stuff that was going on that I didn’t see anyone else actually addressing.

Rachel Halder [00:17:14]:
And even in doing sexuality work and so for myself, I was really into, like, neo tantra work for a while and, like, doing Jade egg practices and all these things, which were powerful, but they were not taught for a person with chronic freeze inside their system. And so what I didn’t realize was, like, I was doing most of those practices going way beyond my own boundaries, And I was doing them from a dissociated state. I just didn’t have any conceptualization of that because I was having these, like, huge, cathartic, like, releases. And I was having these, like, super profound, like, ahas. But as a whole, like, as a wide thing, it was just too much for my system. And that led to an even deeper chronic collapse and just like a total chronic freeze around my sexuality. So I was like, woah. Okay.

Rachel Halder [00:18:01]:
If this happened to me doing this work, no way in hell can I offer this work to the world? Like, it felt so out of integrity and out of alignment in so many different ways. So once I spent 6 years, like, pretty intensely just going down, like, the somatic trauma resolution route, like, a year and a half ago, began offering sexuality work again. And really from this place of I called the course slow burn. Well, first, it was called erotic embodiment, then I changed it to slow burn. And it was really like, oh, how do we do sexuality work from a place that actually, truly, fully honors our right pacing, our right timing, our body’s needs, and really, like, slowing things down so we can even notice that, like, point where, like, oh, I’m saying yes, but the verbal yes is different than my body’s no. And that’s one thing that I saw so much in my clients and in myself too in the past was like, my brain wants one thing, but my body is doing another thing. But I want the thing so bad with my brain that I just kept doing the thing that my brain was telling me I wanted. But, meanwhile, was actually unable to tap into the signals of my body saying, no.

Rachel Halder [00:19:14]:
No. No. No. Or not yet. Not yet. Or, like, I’m scared or whatever it was. And so then really even looking at, like, consent and looking at these different concepts and, like, a verbal yes is actually not a yes. Like, if you’re actually fully attuned to another person or if you’re, you know, maybe not even fully, if you’re 50% attuned to another person or you’re even 50% attuned to yourself, you might start noticing the little subtle nose or the little places or the little voices or the little parts that are like, but what about me? And, like or even the parts that, like, shouldn’t be along for that journey.

Rachel Halder [00:19:45]:
Like, maybe they just need to be cared for and, like, they don’t actually enter the bedroom in that way. So it was, like, really approaching sexuality, not from just, like, what do I want or what are my greatest desires, but actually slowing it down to, like, what is my capacity here and now, and how do I do this work from that place? Like, how do I start it from actually being ridiculously honest about what’s going on for me now? And then what are the really small doable steps I can do from here as opposed to belonging, the desires, the dreams, which those are all welcome too. But if we’re living from that place, it results in kind of what I was sharing.

Sarah Tacy [00:20:30]:
There are times where I feel like I could be really clear on what I want, and then there are times where I’m just like, I don’t know. Is the I don’t know a freeze, or is that just, like, not enough exploration?

Rachel Halder [00:20:42]:
I think it’s too hard to say per person, like, what the I don’t know would be. I should say for myself, I think that I don’t know actually ends up a little bit in the double bind region. So there’s some part of me that’s like, I want this and another part of me that’s like, I can’t do it. And then I get overwhelmed by that and maybe even, like, a little dissociated from it, and then I’m just like, I don’t know. Yeah. How am I supposed to know? You know? Like

Sarah Tacy [00:21:07]:
Yeah. This seems like, for me, now I’m speaking, like, I don’t know that I need to, like, say this out loud on the podcast. But I’m like, this to me seems like really important work for me to do. So let me know when your next program comes out because I think this could be really big. And I I do know that people could jump right into the Neo Tantra world and be like, we’re gonna renew our, you know, we’re gonna renew our relationship. We’re gonna renew I’m gonna get to know myself, and that sounds really great. But, like, your course to me just sounds like a more honest, less force, less overriding to, like, get to the thing that they want you to get to. Yes.

Sarah Tacy [00:21:50]:
And more like honest intimacy with self first, which sounds like such an important first step for engaging in these I don’t wanna say bigger practices, but perhaps, like, more momentum to them.

Rachel Halder [00:22:04]:
More momentum for sure. Yeah. Like, more a lot of, like, neonatantra work is, like, cathartic in nature. And, like, cathartic work isn’t inherently wrong or bad. But if you have a sensitive nervous system or if you have tons of trauma that you haven’t dealt with, like going straight into cathartic work. I have seen like, in the sex, love, and relationship coaching program I have done, one of the themes I see are, like, people coming out of that program feeling pretty messed up.

Sarah Tacy [00:22:31]:
Mhmm. And

Rachel Halder [00:22:31]:
it’s yeah. Because there’s all this trauma. And, like, the I can really only speak for my own story. But, like, for me, it was like there was all this unprocessed trauma, and I was doing all of these super intense practices. And even, like, the pacing is, like, so fast. You know? It’s like I was having all these cathartic releases and all these profound ‘s, but it was, like, literally, like, every day,

Rachel Halder [00:22:52]:
there’s, like, no time for integration.

Sarah Tacy [00:22:54]:
Yeah.

Rachel Halder [00:22:56]:
It was just like, oh, and then there’s this and then there’s this and then there’s this.

Rachel Halder [00:22:59]:
And I was in my twenties, so, you know, it felt just, like, wild and expansive and fun and crazy. And then, you know, towards the end of my twenties, I had this massive chronic collapse. And it was just like, oh. And it took a while to figure out why and how that happened.

Sarah Tacy [00:23:13]:
Could you say a little bit of what the collapse looked like so that somebody else might go like, oh, yeah. That I recognize that?

Rachel Halder [00:23:21]:
Yeah. So if we’re talking about it from, like, a nervous system perspective, I was, like, in a hyper aroused state while I was doing all this work. So I was, you know, I don’t wanna say all of it, but I would say a lot of it was from, like, a fight or flight perspective. And it was definitely from a place of, like, I need to fix myself. Because I was also in a relationship where my sexual I considered at that time sexual dysfunction. My, like, inability to, like, be intimate in that way was really affecting the dynamics. And so I was really in a place of, like, I must fix myself. Like, I need to heal this.

Rachel Halder [00:23:58]:
Like, I’m the messed up one, and it’s all my duty to make this okay. And so we’re doing it from a hyper place. Anytime we’re, like, running a super strong hyper overdrive anytime. But generally speaking, there there will be a time where the nervous system collapses down into a freeze, into a hypo aroused state. And so for me, you know, it it was a gradual shutdown, but it was kind of like all systems began shutting down. At first, it was just like, oh, wow. I feel so, like, avoidant of these sexuality practices. You know? Like, I was literally doing every day for, like, 3 years straight.

Rachel Halder [00:24:36]:
And then suddenly, I was like, I don’t want anything to do with those. Even thinking about them makes me wanna vomit. Like, I don’t want I like, even hearing, like, my teacher’s voice made me wanna, like, puke. Like, it was like, I need that to get, like, so far away from me. And then I started having blocks in my business because I was teaching this work, and, clearly, it was out of integrity in my own system. And so then, like, my business started, like, you know, I would offer programs and, like, people would come in, but I would feel, like, uncomfortable. And I I wasn’t tracking fully, like, why or, like, why does this not feel right or, like, what’s going on here? And then I started developing a lot of, like, health problems. And I’ve I’ve always had, like, some public health issues.

Rachel Halder [00:25:19]:
Like, I have an autoimmune disease called interstitial cystitis. That, like, started to have a really big flare up. And it it was just like everything just started kind of collapsing, kinda collapsing. And then about 3 years after that, I finished that program, I had, like, a full blown health crisis where I had, like, adrenal fatigue, like chronic fatigue, placebo, SIFO, candida overgrowth. Like, it was like my whole system went into, like, we can’t do anything.

Sarah Tacy [00:25:51]:
Wow. And it

Rachel Halder [00:25:51]:
was that time that I sort of just, like, stopped. I didn’t stop my business completely. I still have 1 on 1 clients, but they all came referral. Like, I didn’t I didn’t post on Instagram. I posted, like, 18 times in 2 years. I just, like, really stepped back and leaned away.

Sarah Tacy [00:26:08]:
Yeah. I think that, you know, some of it might feel like necessity, but I also think there’s a lot of integrity in that. I’m wondering if this is an overlap with your relationship ending or if that’s different. And I’m wondering if you would be willing to speak to the dynamics of I’m, like, afraid to say it out loud because I don’t want to put a label on anybody or anything, and I don’t really know I know you a little bit. But what I perceive as, like, a highly intelligent woman who’s also highly empathetic, being in a relationship with somebody who is possibly a narcissist, but how unclear that can be at the beginning and how that can possibly affect an empath and maybe have better words than I do emotionally and our ability to, like, trust ourselves and our feelings and our knowing when we’re, you know, attuning to somebody else and reflecting on ourselves. Like, I think a lot of people in the self, help and self growth are gonna, oh, what part did I play in that? And what is my role? And if somebody feeds into that, how how that can really be like, oh, it is all me, and I need to change these things. And I’ve just met so many people. I can see some of these patterns myself too.

Sarah Tacy [00:27:32]:
And I’ve met so many people who are just, like, so intelligent and Mhmm. So aware who have found themselves in this pattern. And so part of identifying it is also that a listener might be able to say like, oh, I can see these pieces, but not all the pieces or all all of these pieces are here. So I’m wondering if you could speak a little bit on that.

Rachel Halder [00:27:55]:
Yeah. I mean, it’s kind of the whole journey in my life is a little complex because that whole chronic collapse thing was happening simultaneously while I was getting into this relationship. We don’t want to use labels. We can just Tacy, I was in a highly abusive and toxic relationship that I couldn’t see as abusive for at least a year into relationship. They Tacy, on average, it takes a woman

Sarah Tacy [00:28:22]:
7 times to walk away and come back and walk away and come back and walk away and come

Rachel Halder [00:28:23]:
back and walk away. And I’m not gonna average, it takes a woman Sarah times to walk away and come back and walk away and come back until, like, she can fully, actually remove herself from the situation. There was a lot of overcoupling that was happening. Like, on one plane, he kinda swooped in as a savior, which I think a lot of times these types of personalities do. It’s like they know how to make themselves into every single thing that you want. And so I literally had had a list of, like you know, now I’m like, I don’t believe in this. I’m like, no. I do not believe in manifesting partners because I manifested a partner who literally checked off every single checkbox, and it was the most, like, fucked up painful experience of my entire life.

Rachel Halder [00:29:15]:
So I’m, like, yeah, I’m actually, like, a big proponent in not manifesting the perfect partner. But there’s a big smoke screen and, like, a lot of delusion and a lot of feeding into whatever unconscious desires and patterns you have within yourself. And that gets you pretty hooked in. Like, they call it love bombing. Like, there’s actually terminology for all of these mechanisms. And so in that time frame, what I really needed was to step away from my business, and I needed, like, you know, financial security. I needed connection. It was also happening right as COVID happened.

Rachel Halder [00:29:56]:
Like, we we originally were like friends, and we moved into a community house together literally the week that, like, COVID exploded in the United States in, like, 2020. So so then we were really isolated, like, in our own little bubbles. So there were a lot of elements that, like, went into how that happened. But there was a huge piece of it as he’s extremely intelligent, very, very, like, mystical, magical, like, very spiritually connected in certain ways and, like, highly, highly, highly attuned in energetics. And that was the part that was so alluring to me because I knew I was a very energetic being, but I didn’t understand it. I didn’t have, like, conceptions of what it all was or what it all meant. And so that’s kind of what first lured me in. I was like, oh, I wanna learn.

Rachel Halder [00:30:47]:
I wanna understand. Like, what is the stuff he’s talking about? Like, he’s actually the one who introduced the concept of merging to me. But in that sense that he was this, like, spiritual leader, like, leader of a community, highly intelligent, very well read and well studied in self development and spiritual growth work. He was able to use all of that, like, exactly as you can to like, I was very easily manipulated. And because my whole, like, life has been around, like, understanding myself on deeper levels, I was willing to let him, like, tell me who I was, which was never a good thing. Like, I was eventually a piece of shit and and not, you know, such direct words. And then these concepts, these, like, spiritual concepts or these self development concepts were actually utilized in a way that would really harm me. But because I so badly wanted to be good and because I so badly also wanted to understand myself and wanted to go deeper and deeper, It was, like, the perfect match.

Rachel Halder [00:31:50]:
It just, like, worked so perfectly.

Sarah Tacy [00:31:53]:
When did you realize it wasn’t the perfect match? And what was your recovery like?

Rachel Halder [00:32:00]:
I mean, if I’m totally honest, I knew pretty quickly. But the thing with being in an abusive relationship is that you’re so disconnected from yourself. And whether they do it on purpose or not, that type of personality actually wants to disconnect you from yourself. Like, they purposely will slowly erode anything that feels like identity to you. He really supported me leaving my work. Oh, that’s so nice. Yes. It was actually like there’s a there was an undercurrent for why he wanted me to leave my work.

Rachel Halder [00:32:33]:
Like, you know, like, all these things. Like, it was like, yes, nice on the surface. And underneath, there was always, like, an ulterior motive for what he was doing, but it could always be encased in, like, niceties or, like, in, like, oh, I have your best interest in mind. Like, this is for your highest good. This is for you to, like, thrive. Meanwhile, I’m, like, sucking out your life force energy from you and, like, making you very isolated and, like, in this little tiny bubble. So if if I look back on it, it’s like, no. In my gut, I knew.

Rachel Halder [00:33:04]:
In my gut, I was like, this is messed up. Like, stuff is not okay. I even read journal entries from, like, the first the first three months were like bliss. I read journal entries from, like, 3 months to 6 months, and I was cognizant of the very unhealthy dynamics were that were happening. I, like, explicitly wrote out, like, the nervous system dynamics that were happening in him. Because at this time, I was, like, very well versed in, like, static trauma resolution. Like, I was even well versed in these kinds of dynamics. And I I was shocked when I got out of the relationship to be like, oh my gosh.

Rachel Halder [00:33:39]:
Like, I knew. I knew. But when you’re in it, it’s so hard for people who’ve never been in it to have any conceptualization or understanding of it. But when you’re in it, you’re just, like, so hooked in. There’s so many smokescreens that are created, and there’s so much like, they’ll do anything to, like, fog you up again, essentially. And so it finally took until, actually, 3 years ago this month exactly on the dot. It actually took him waking me up a little bit where we got into a really big fight. And I apparently looked like I wanted to hit him, which I did.

Rachel Halder [00:34:15]:
And that was the first time I ever really went into, like, a fight response. Normally, I went into, like, a total freeze and fawn response every single time because he would be very, very aggressive and very just mean. In that time, for whatever reason, my body went more into a fight response. And he looked at me. He said, are you gonna hit me? You look like you wanna hit me. And I was like, I do wanna hit you. But instead of hitting you, I’m gonna walk out of this place, and I’m, like, gonna remove myself from the situation, and I’m gonna go work on myself. And so I did.

Rachel Halder [00:34:43]:
I removed myself, and, like, I was journaling. And in the journaling, I was like, this is so unhealthy. This is not okay. And when I came back, he, like, looked so unhealthy. This is not okay. And when I came back, he, like, looked me straight in the eye and said, you know, in the context of alcoholics anonymous, I’m the alcoholic and you’re the codependent. And my brain was like, he just admitted to you that he’s abusive. That is what he just did.

Rachel Halder [00:35:06]:
And something about that shifted something for me. Like and, again, it still took me 6 months to leave after that point, but I recognized it. It was like that punctured some sort of, like, smoke screen that was there that I could start seeing it. And I still couldn’t admit to anyone. I am in an abusive relationship, but I just began doing different things. Like, I, like, I went and visited parents for a week, and then I went to New Mexico for it was originally only supposed to be 3 weeks, and then it ended up being 6 weeks. And then when I was in New Mexico, I did a hermitage for a week where I was just in a little hut all by myself, like, no phone, no electricity, no nothing. And I actually wrote, like, a 10 page poem called vampire love.

Rachel Halder [00:35:50]:
And that was at the point that that label, like, narcissist came to me. And I was like, oh my god. Like, and in writing that poem, it was just, like, stream of conscious poem. And in that writing that poem, I was like, this is not a normal relationship. Like, I well, that was one of the lines. Like, this is not a normal relationship. And that was another thing. Like, I think I had childhood belief that, like, relationships were just hard and, like, you know, there’d always be conflict and you just had to, like, work on them.

Rachel Halder [00:36:21]:
And if you could, you know, work on yourself, then it could be fine. And I also had a lot of, like, childhood beliefs of just, like, sticking it out and, like, loyalty and, like, like, I’m a very loyal person. Like, I actually am very, like, I will stick by your side no matter what. Those belief systems made me not see clearly what was actually happening. But, yeah, I left pretty like, I left, I think, about 6 weeks after that hermitage, maybe 2 months.

Sarah Tacy [00:36:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like quite the journey. I can think of so many times in my life where it’s not until I remove myself from something where I can see how it wasn’t healthy. That idea when it’s so close to you, it’s hard to see it. And especially Yeah. Dynamics, which I think are generally unconscious.

Sarah Tacy [00:37:13]:
I can imagine in your partner so much of it is unconscious. It’s something that you learn preverbally as a kid of wait, survive, and get love, and keep love. That most of it’s under the radar. And and I appreciate you talking about it because it reminds me of the very beginning of our conversation where we talk about shame where one could say, well, I’m a nervous system practitioner, and I can help you with this and that, and therefore, it’s never gonna happen to me. So to be able to say, like, and this happened and, like, and you’re still really freaking good at what you do. And the thing is so many people feel like they have to mask or hide the parts that aren’t perfect. And so I really appreciate you. And it’s not even that it’s not perfect, but I appreciate you saying this part because you said that it it took a while for you even to say that you were in an abusive relationship, and I just really honor that you’re able to tell your story.

Rachel Halder [00:38:06]:
Yeah.

Sarah Tacy [00:38:07]:
Again, when I hear different people’s stories, I can I can hear parts of myself in them, and it and it helps me and it helps me orient? So I appreciate that. Do you think this is a good time to say something about merging, or would you wanna come back for a mini musing to say something about the dynamics of merging?

Rachel Halder [00:38:26]:
We could just name it, and then maybe we do a mini soiree on it. Yeah. You know, if people are like, oh, that sounds like my jam. They can come listen to that. Yeah. So merging is the concept. It’s like energetic codependency or energetic. Like, if we wanna take a label off of, it’s like energetic.

Rachel Halder [00:38:45]:
Well, it’s literally what it sounds like, merging. So it’s when my energetic structure has some sort of breach or opening to let someone else’s energetic structure in or vice versa where I enter into someone else’s energetic structure and then our structures are merged, which means we’re not solid and contained in our own energy field. There’s 4 core ways that we usually merge with people. 1 is around, like, resonance. Like, oh, we feel the same thing or we feel similarly. Another is around withhold. If someone’s not saying something, but the other person can, like, feel it or sense it in some way. Another is around judgment and, like, I think you’re a bad person and you think you’re a bad person, and suddenly we’re immersed in that.

Rachel Halder [00:39:31]:
Or another way is like structural breakdown. Like, if we’re just tired, if we’re sick, if we’re hungover, if we, you know, use a lot of substances, like, whatever it might be, then we might have more of, like, a structural breakdown in our energetic field. And if we’re the type of person who is very energetically sensitive and has a tendency to, like, let other people into their field, then you could just have a structural breakdown, which suddenly you’re, like, merging with the car salesman and, like, merging with the grocery clerk. And you’re like, what the heck is happening? Why do I feel so terrible and, like, awful? And it’s like, oh, I’m literally carrying other people in my energetic structure.

Sarah Tacy [00:40:07]:
I worked with a woman, and she was like, you need to clean out your house. And she was talking about my body. She’s like, you’re carrying everybody in your body and you need to, like, clean it out. Like, let them take care of themselves. Find yourself in your boundary. And I’m wondering maybe the last question that we’ll end with and maybe we can do a different session just on merging, which is I kinda had the thought. I think I misunderstood merging a little bit, but I thought that maybe it would fall under the hypersocial too of when you’re okay, I’m okay, in which a lot of my preferences start to change because my biggest preference is that you’re okay. And so my smaller preferences of what I actually want start to disappear and I start to lose, like, who I am and what I want and what I desire because I’m so concerned about you being okay, which could come from a very young place of making sure our parents are okay so that they’re not stressed, so that they don’t get angry, so that they don’t yell.

Sarah Tacy [00:41:06]:
Whatever it is, that very early when you’re okay, I’m okay. And I would have imagined that would be a major thing in merging in which I could lose myself and my identity to another person who is a little bit, like, bigger and scarier, but that I, like, still want their love and connection.

Rachel Halder [00:41:24]:
Absolutely. That is definitely one common way that merging can play out. But the interesting thing is it it wouldn’t just be hypersocial. Like, that that like, for me, that is. Like, my merging is very much around people pleasing. It’s very much around wanting connection, wanting belonging. I receive merges 85% of the time, meaning I’m actually not someone who often initiates merges. If someone initiates a merge with me, I’ve had to learn how to close the door and be like, no.

Rachel Halder [00:41:53]:
Thank you. People are initiating merges, not always, but, like, it can actually be from more of, like, like, a fight response or even like, it could be a different kind of response. You know? It could be like, I want something from you. So I’m projecting my energy out onto you to try to get that from you. And my system’s like, okay. Like, you know, like, I’ll unconsciously receive that. And then, again, it’s like, why do I feel so messed up? Oh, I feel messed up because I’ve literally my energetic structure is not solid.

Sarah Tacy [00:42:26]:
Okay.

Rachel Halder [00:42:27]:
My energetic structure isn’t solid. I’m not centered in myself. I’m not solid.

Sarah Tacy [00:42:31]:
Okay. I think we need a session on this one. I’m like, I think I got you. I think I got this. But I’m like, if you don’t mind, if you would be open to it I can’t really open. Musing. So those are shorter episodes. Generally, every now and then I have someone else on.

Sarah Tacy [00:42:45]:
Generally, it’s just when I kind of, like, muse on a topic or an idea. And I would just say to the listeners, if you have any questions, you can go on to Sarah and send questions about merging or, like, hey, this happened to me in my life, and could you guys talk about this or answer that question? So if any of the listeners have questions around merging, maybe we’ll go over that and talk about the end of any music. Yeah. I wanna hear more. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on today. I definitely had a lot of revelatory moments that felt important and helped me to see things from slightly different perspectives as well as other points. I’m like, oh, yeah.

Sarah Tacy [00:43:22]:
I know that. I’ve felt that. And I just really appreciate you sharing everything that you shared.

Rachel Halder [00:43:28]:
Thank you so much for having me. It was great fun.

Sarah Tacy [00:43:30]:
Alright. We’ll see you next time. Thank you for tuning in. It’s been such a pleasure. If you’re looking for added support, I’m offering a program that’s totally free called 21 days of untapped support. It’s pretty awesome. It’s very easy. It’s very helpful.

Sarah Tacy [00:44:02]:
You can find it at Sarah dotcom. And if you love this episode, please subscribe and like. Apparently, it’s wildly useful. So we could just explore what happens when you scroll down to the bottom. Subscribe, rate, maybe say a thing or 2. If you’re not feeling it, don’t do it. It’s totally fine. I look forward to gathering with you again.

Sarah Tacy [00:44:25]:
Thank you so much.