069 – Toyin Augustus: Choosing Love as Liberation

Sarah Tacy [00:00:05]:
Hello. Welcome. I’m Sarah Tacy, and this is Threshold Moments, a podcast where guests and I share stories about the process of updating into truer versions of ourselves. The path is unknown and the pull feels real. Together, we share our grief, laughter, love, and life saving tools. Join us. Hello, and welcome to Threshold Moments. Today, we have with us, Toyin Augustus.

Sarah Tacy [00:00:47]:
I felt so lit up after this conversation. Toyin has a remarkable life. I think what I’m finding myself most interested in with the guests that I speak to is the way it is possible as we get older to become both softer and stronger, more resilient, more supple, have more buoyancy, if you will, in life, as opposed to becoming more resentful and hardened. Because as we go along in life, there can be a stacking of hard things that happen, things that make us grieve. And as Toyin points out in this story too, there are many categories into which she falls in which life would become harder due to cultural oppression, biases, the way society has set things up for white supremacy, for patriarchy, and her story in my mind shows what the human spirit can do, what her faith in God does for her, what her efforts do, what consistency does. At the end, there’s a line of, I choose not to be an oppressor. And to really listen to what that takes to not retaliate, to have boundaries, to move with love. I have not even mentioned any of her accolades.

Sarah Tacy [00:02:43]:
One being that she just set the new world record in her age group for the hurdles that she was an Olympian in 2,008. So there are many impressive things that she’s done in life. She’s a mother. She does work to bring more social justice to this earth. She is a human who inspires. And I feel so blessed that literally that, like, she was preparing, she was going to practice right after our interview and was attempting another world record for outdoor track the very next day after this. So just a really awesome human. And why you know, I was just like, I’ll just give a little teaser to learn why she actually at this age decided, you know what, I’m gonna go and compete again.

Sarah Tacy [00:03:37]:
It’s a nervous system, trauma resolution release type answer that then just kept growing into for how I see it more empowerment and strength, and processing, and coming back to one’s core. So that was a long intro. I’m clearly very excited. I hope you like this interview as much as I do. And please, if you have the time, listen all the way through to the end because the gems keep coming. Blessings and enjoy. Hello, and welcome to Threshold Moments. My name is Sarah Tacy, and we have with us Toyin Augustus.

Sarah Tacy [00:04:21]:
Toyin was a Nigerian 100 meter hurdler Olympian. Twain is a mother, a very recent master’s world record holder in the 100 meter hurdles, and a social justice professional who centers diversity, equity, inclusion, justice, and belonging as the founder of Across the Tracks Consulting. And, Duane, when I looked up when I just started putting up your name, immediately under Google, it said, god is worthy to be praised.

Toyin Augustus [00:04:55]:
Mhmm.

Sarah Tacy [00:04:55]:
And that that is linked with your name. And so I’m just welcome.

Toyin Augustus [00:05:01]:
Thank you. Oh my goodness. I appreciate that. And God is, and that is the meaning of my name. The Lord deserves praise, worthy of praise. And ever since I’ve known that and understood that, it has really resonated with me. And I carry with me the idea that names are so important and critical to who we can be, like, to our potential and who we are. Right? Like, that we oftentimes can live into that in such beautiful ways.

Toyin Augustus [00:05:33]:
And so that that’s always been with me. So thank you for naming that and noticing that. That gives me joy to hear that. And, yeah, that’s that’s pretty much me. The only slight correction there so my master’s world record wasn’t the hurdles, but it’s the 60 meter hurdles for indoor. And now that we’ve started outdoor season for my age group in masters, the event is 80 meter hurdles, and that’s a difference from when I was competing in elite track and field, and it was 100 meter hurdles. So they gave us 20 meters less. I don’t need it.

Toyin Augustus [00:06:02]:
I would still do the 100, but we have we have 80 meter hurdles. And tomorrow, I will be attempting the world record in my age group for the 80 meter hurdles. So see how that goes.

Sarah Tacy [00:06:17]:
And nobody can see this, but we’re both wearing gold, and I just feel like that’s really really holding the field for what’s possible. I love that. So I became aware of you via my cousin, Michelle Roberts. And she knows you through Phillips Exeter Academy. And she was just like, I just think that you would really love interviewing this woman. And so I got to look you up, and I was so grateful when you said yes. And I’m going through your timeline. And before we got on here, I was describing, well, this this podcast is about thresholds, and this is how I see a threshold.

Sarah Tacy [00:07:00]:
And you’re like, I have at least 4 of them. So as I looked at your timeline and I see you winning golds and 1st place and then going to the Olympics, Well, maybe do you wanna say anything about that before I jump to a then? Do you wanna say anything about your early career and what it was like to be you at that point in your life?

Toyin Augustus [00:07:28]:
Gosh. My early career. I mean, like, I was running track since middle school. It was, like, fun. It was a thing I could do, and then I was good at it. So I kept doing it, and I did it in high school and had state records. I believe I still have a couple out there in Alabama, and really grateful for that. And just the the love of the sport started to grow and then was able to get a scholarship to compete at Penn State, where I was like, oh gosh.

Toyin Augustus [00:07:54]:
There’s a lot of good people. The college experience there. The convergence of greatness, to a certain extent. Really enjoyed my time there, and I had the opportunity to, like, kinda do what everyone was doing in college, like getting jobs afterwards. And I remember having an interview where the interviewer was like, sounds like you could keep doing this track thing. You get a job later. Like, you could you do. Why don’t you just keep pursuing? I was like, oh, good idea.

Toyin Augustus [00:08:20]:
Right? And so I I hadn’t thought about, like, oh, gosh. Continue to run. I thought about it, but it didn’t really feel real. And so I I did decide to pursue that, and so I started competing. Postcollegiately, moved to Atlanta and had a coach and a group down there for a little while. And it was rough. That it was rough. And I’d say I was sneaking up on my first threshold moment at that point, having kinda, like, dropped the whole go make money and, like, be whatever whatever the start living into the American dream, if you will, time.

Toyin Augustus [00:08:51]:
And then if you want, we can we can talk about that that

Sarah Tacy [00:08:54]:
Yeah. Please. Please.

Toyin Augustus [00:08:56]:
It was really interesting because I have always been, like, so responsible with all of my things, like school and money and my time. Just a very kinda type a, if you will, individual. And then, I didn’t do the job thing. Right? And so I was like, okay, I’m gonna pursue this passion. And, you know, that’s always, like, a journey towards starving artists, you know? So I was like, I’m gonna do it. And so I thought I was really prepared and didn’t have a lot of debt, just like, you know, some school loans and started training. And I had, like, a coach, and I needed to get a car, and I needed to, like, live. And so I was trying to get everything together, but I wasn’t really making money like I needed to.

Toyin Augustus [00:09:35]:
And I thought I was gonna go to Europe and compete, and it didn’t quite work out. And then it was so this was graduated in o one. I was trying to make o four Olympics, ended up going to Nigeria for my Olympic trials and getting Sarah, and so I qualified. And I needed to, like, improve on my time. So this is o four. Right? So, you know, I didn’t go to the Olympics. Right? Like, we know we know how that ended because my my Olympics were o eight. And so in o four, I was I still had my Nigerian passport, and I needed a visa to get to Europe.

Toyin Augustus [00:10:16]:
And so I was struggling trying to figure out, like, how I was gonna do that. And my agent had sent me to the UK, and I was gonna do all this to get this, like, Schengen visa. And it just it didn’t work out, and I had to come home. And Nigeria was like, yeah. We’re gonna send you a ticket. You know? We’re gonna, like, you know, make sure you get over. And I was like, I couldn’t go to Europe to make money. I couldn’t figure out, like, how I was going to, like, continue to, like, support myself because I really needed to make that money in Europe with competitions.

Toyin Augustus [00:10:47]:
And when I came back, Nigeria then was, like, kinda giving me the federation representatives were giving me a runaround about my ticket to the Olympics. This was Athens, I believe, in 04. A really cool one. Right? Like, Greek Olympics. Like and I didn’t end up going. They didn’t send the ticket. They didn’t send money. I didn’t go to Europe.

Toyin Augustus [00:11:07]:
I had been, like, working at Starbucks, which was great, actually, at the time, although thoughts about Starbucks right now. Okay. We can do better. That job was really supportive of me at the time. But it was a lot. I was getting up at, like, 4 in the morning and working until noon or, you know, 5 to 1 or whatever the schedules were. And I just again, I wasn’t making enough money. So I wasn’t making enough money.

Toyin Augustus [00:11:29]:
I went to Nigeria and and did what I needed to do for the trials, and they didn’t send me a ticket. I didn’t get to go to Europe. I didn’t make money, and I had spent so much money. And I was like, oh my god. Like, what is what’s happening? Like, you don’t want me to do this? Like, is this not my purpose? Is this not what I’m supposed to be doing? Am I doing something wrong? Am I being punished? You know, all of the ideas, thoughts, like, in my mind and everything at the fan. And my threshold moment, if you will, my my point on the ground on my knees literally in my one bedroom apartment that I had been sharing, but then my roommate had moved out. Tacy. Just found myself like, I can’t do anything.

Toyin Augustus [00:12:12]:
Right? Like, I’m stuck, and I gotta give it all up. And I remember just the tears, like, that really ugly, messy cry. Those are the good ones. Yeah. Yeah. Need to, like, understand needing to be held, and there was nobody. You know? I felt like there was nobody. So, I mean, I called my mom.

Toyin Augustus [00:12:33]:
I remember calling my mom, and she was amazing. And she I thought she was gonna be like, I told you to get a job. She told me she did. She did it. She’s great. She was just like, you know, you you could have called earlier. I’m here. And I was like, they’re gonna repossess my car.

Toyin Augustus [00:12:47]:
They did it. They repossessed my car. I had to move out. I couldn’t pay my rent. And I was like, I have to give it all up.

Sarah Tacy [00:12:55]:
Can I pause here for a moment? I think I’m just wanting to reflect on a few things, which is just how dedicated and how hard you are working.

Toyin Augustus [00:13:07]:
Mhmm.

Sarah Tacy [00:13:07]:
And I think in our culture, and when I say our culture, like, in the US here at least, there is such a, like, the less you need other people and the more you do things on your own, the more you’re celebrated.

Toyin Augustus [00:13:21]:
Mhmm.

Sarah Tacy [00:13:21]:
And so here you are, and you’ve come so far, and you’ve done so much, and you’re doing all the things you’re supposed to do. And then when you’re asking the people who are supposed to help you and, like, want you to go somewhere to not get that, I can imagine how heartbreaking that is. And then in that moment when you said, like, and your mom was there and she picked up the phone, I’m just, for myself, thinking of times where, for me I don’t know if this is your experience. For me, sometimes, in my hardest moments, it’s not that there aren’t people who wouldn’t pick up the phone, but I’m so used to trying to figure it out on my own. And in the part where you’re like, am I doing it’s like asking god, am I doing something wrong? Did I do something wrong? I wonder if the listeners ever feel like this. Like, when you’re you’re you’re following your pull and you’re following the thing you’re supposed to do and nothing seems to be, like, showing up and supporting it, that that real question of, I thought I was taking the risk to follow the poll. Shouldn’t the world be showing up to Mike? And I still I think there’s just such bravery that you that you took it as far as you did, and you tried as hard as you did, and you reached out to all the people that you did.

Toyin Augustus [00:14:32]:
Gosh. Thank you. I appreciate that a lot. You know, just that recognition of all the ways that we try to do all the things. And I received that because, you know, I I’m proud of that. And it is like a level of oppression, though, right, to put ourselves particularly I’m gonna say just speaking from my identity as a woman, as a black woman, as a black woman child of immigrants, right, that there’s so much that you have to do. There’s so much that’s expected of you, and there’s not as much grace for dropping the ball. Right? And there’s not as much safety nets for not getting it done.

Toyin Augustus [00:15:16]:
Right? And so my parents don’t have, you know, the generational wealth, right, in this country to back me up when I fall. Then as a child of immigrants, like, they’re like, come on. We came over here for a reason, but I get figure it out. Get it together. You know? And so there’s a lot that you hold. It’s a lot of weight and responsibility, and it shouldn’t be that much. Right? And then as a woman, I think that there’s less leeway also for not doing all the things that we’re supposed to be able to do. And as a black person in this country who’s been socialized to be black in this country, which is different from because I’m not, you know, a descendant of enslaved people, Being an immigrant here and coming willfully, there’s still, like, this expectation that if you mess up, it’s your fault.

Toyin Augustus [00:16:10]:
If you don’t get it, it’s your fault. Different from, oh, it could be like the systems and the process and something, you know, in some way the structure should be more supportive. Right? It’s like you. And that whole individualistic idea, I think, in this Western culture can be very oppressive and damaging. And so but we do it. Right? We do it, and we we fall into that way of being. And then when we don’t do it, what happens from my perspective is the shame cycle where it’s like, oh, it’s me. I’m the problem.

Toyin Augustus [00:16:40]:
Right? What did I do wrong? Right? And you could hear that in my narrative. Like, what what was mine? My issue or my my shortcoming that caused this to happen? And I do believe that we can and should take responsibility for where we do have power to do things differently and make change. And I do think that there’s a lot of systems at play that keep us from being able to do that as well. So it’s definitely a both and in in my story, and I think in in all of our stories. And when we fall, it’s like, oh, it’s me. Right? And I just I I would tell my past self and as I hold her that, you know, there’s a lot of things at play. Yes. You can do better, and there’s other places and spaces where better can be done for you as well.

Sarah Tacy [00:17:23]:
Yeah. And I interrupted your story to take that thought to to be able to say that because sometimes even building the context that you just added there is so significant. So I’m so glad that we did take that time to build in even more context to the story.

Toyin Augustus [00:17:42]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Tacy [00:17:43]:
So it’s 2,004. You’ve called your mom. Your car has been repossessed. You have done everything you can do to fulfill this dream thus far.

Toyin Augustus [00:17:53]:
And she offered support, financial support, emotional support, and we made a plan, and it didn’t involve me giving up on the dream. And I really appreciate her modeling that for me that that was a that was an option because I was ready for, well, you messed up, so better do something different. That wasn’t it. And we prayed together, which is something that she’s always modeled for me as well, that that’s an option, and that is a good option. And so I kept going. I kept training, and I ended up moving to California. When did I move to California? Actually so let me let me try to backtrack here. 2004.

Toyin Augustus [00:18:30]:
So it didn’t work out. I was like, alright. Nigeria. Like, don’t know if I messed with my fellow kid. But I I stayed in Atlanta. I continued to train. I moved. I got a different roommate.

Toyin Augustus [00:18:41]:
I got a different job. I was personal training. I was doing all kinds of stuff. Feels a little better. I I I met an amazing woman who was who I was training at LA Fitness at the time, and she is now, like, you know, I call her my godmother because I think god brought her into my life. And I moved in with her, and she let me live with her. And it was so much love there, and really supported me in my journey. And then I decided to try to compete for Nigeria again.

Toyin Augustus [00:19:13]:
They called me again. And this summer, I was like, I’m not going anywhere till I get a check. So I did end up competing in 2006 for Nigeria. I believe that was either all Africa games. I think it was all Africa games in Mauritius. I think that was 2006. Oh, it’s been a minute, which was amazing. It was wonderful.

Toyin Augustus [00:19:32]:
I loved that experience. So I guess just in transition, it was just amazing to see how god, like, turned all of that into lots of lessons for me in reaching out and not being an island, in getting support that I needed, in shifting things around, and that there was a path forward. Right? And so I I’m not sure that I learned all the things I needed to learn, but I did learn a bunch of things and was able to to continue the journey and move forward, even just an encouragement. And to be honest, I think what I needed to learn was that I can fall and get back up in a in a really big way. So I think that was probably the biggest and most important lesson that I learned is that it became, like, my testimony. Right? That, you know, won’t he do it. You know? Yes. He will.

Toyin Augustus [00:20:15]:
So 2006, lots of success there. I got gold. It was like, what? You know? See, God. You know? Lots to praise in our getting creating these bracelets and these autograph cards when I was in Europe saying blessed to be a blessing. Right? Like, that I have all of these blessings that I’ve gotten and that I should be sharing it. It’s not just about me. Right? And there’s other people who need love and care and support and encouragement, and and I wanted to be that for other people. And I don’t remember exactly when, but I I eventually did start managing myself in meats in Europe.

Toyin Augustus [00:20:48]:
I think my first few years, I had a agent for sure. And then I started managing myself, and I was able to do that. I was able to, like, bless some other people by supporting them and getting over to Europe and and doing track meets as well. So 2 So 2006, 2007, then 2008 came around, and it was time to to try out the Olympics again. And I was like, I’m not buying a ticket, because I’d spent so much money and done all the things. And this time, you know, Nigeria came through better as well, and I had some more connections, in Nigeria. And I had moved to California by this time and was training with a new coach whose wife I had met in Europe, and then I I you know, she was like, he’s a great coach if you you don’t want it. Because I was like, I need warmer weather.

Toyin Augustus [00:21:37]:
I need so many more things. And my sister was living in California at the time as well. So moved over to California and started competing out here, been trading out here, and still heading over to Europe. And I would head over to Europe in the winter for a month or 2 and then in the summer for a month or 2 and loved that experience. Right? Like, seeing the world so many I mean, like, I’ve visited, like, more than 30 different countries across, you know, around the world and seeing so many different cultures and experiencing people and places in ways that, you know, some people only dream. And, of course, I’m always, like, working and hustle like, working. Right? Training and hustling and everything. So there’s always something to do.

Toyin Augustus [00:22:14]:
And I wasn’t living it lavishly. Right? I wasn’t going to all the fancy places. It was but I was in community with people. And, Tacy places. It was but I was in community with people and improving on my French. And it was a a really amazing, amazing time in my life. And I met a partner, and, you know, And I met a partner, and that was in we met in 08 because we were both trying to get ready for the Olympics. And he started training with my my coach as well.

Toyin Augustus [00:22:39]:
And so that’s a whole another story that leads to another threshold. I have to do something that we’ve been talking into in this area. Interview.

Sarah Tacy [00:22:47]:
We’ll do a part 2 sometime. Yeah.

Toyin Augustus [00:22:49]:
It sounds good.

Sarah Tacy [00:22:51]:
So 2,008, you go to the Olympics Yes. And then you continue to train. And I also just like as you were talking about this going around the world and being in at least 30 different countries, you were really lighting up. And and I I was thinking, like, I I bet in those moments, she was so glad that that first interview person was like, why don’t you keep running? But I had to also hold that with the truth of, like, the first four years of that experience. I’m not sure if I have the math right there, but the first years of the that experience of that first go around. So that there is, like, the experience of both when you take that risk that you really lived both parts of that risk.

Toyin Augustus [00:23:34]:
Yeah. I continue to hold the both end of that, that there’s multiple truths evident there, that there was that joyful moment. I felt very successful, and I wasn’t rich. You know? I was still struggling. Like, at any moment, I could, like, not make enough to, like, pay my bills. So it wasn’t easy. It was just, like, such a huge nod at, like, yes. This is what you should be doing.

Toyin Augustus [00:23:57]:
Right? And it wasn’t it was enough reassurance to sustain the parts that weren’t easy. Because financially, I was still struggling, you know, overall. Make a make a chunk of money here, and it was all dependent on how well I performed. Not how hard I worked, but how well I performed. So I could work my butt off, right, for months and not perform or get an injury or whatever, and I wouldn’t get paid. It wasn’t like salary where it’s like, oh, I can, like, you know, not do really great this quarter and still, you know, still get paid. No. It was all all dependent on the success that came from that.

Sarah Tacy [00:24:33]:
So I know that clearly female salaries and male salaries are very different. And this is an area I am really unsure about because I think in the Olympic Olympics, were male sprinters who were running the same races as you running the same race as far as, like, finances go? Like, was there a difference between male and females who are doing the exact same thing?

Toyin Augustus [00:24:59]:
It’s probably a complicated answer that I don’t have all the details to. But what I can say is this, I one of the things I love about track and field is that it’s very objective. And in Europe and and, again, like, you know, there’s US context, and then there’s, like, global context. And we we know that the ways in which we deal with money are are different in different context in different countries. And so for track and field at a competition, they have prize money. And the prize money typically does not differ between male and female events. So male 100 meter runners, female 100 meter runners, like, the prize money is 10,000, you get 10,000 ir irregardless. If it’s 11,000, you know, you get 1,000.

Toyin Augustus [00:25:45]:
Now what they might say is, well, the 100 meter runners, that’s a gold level event. So their prize money is 10,000 for winning, but, like, the 200 or the hurdles or long jump or something like that might have, like, 1500 or something. You know? And, also, the track meets all have different events. And so I know that when I was competing back in the day in France, there were tons of female hurdlers. So almost every French competition had women’s hurdles. It didn’t always have the triple jump. It didn’t always have the 400 hurdles or something like that, but they always had the short hurdles. A 100 hurdles are the 1 tens for men.

Toyin Augustus [00:26:23]:
And so the different events had different, like, you know, value in terms of whether the meet directors would even ho host the event and then the amount of money that would be attributed to winning or getting top 3 or top 6 of whatever event. So those are the differentiators for the most part in terms of getting paid for competitions. Now there’s different ways that you can get paid. Right? And so sponsorship was another one, and that’s, I would say, way more lucrative than the track meets themselves. You can only do so many track meets. And so if you were sponsored by Nike or Mizuno or Adidas, right, they have their different contracts. And I think that’s where you would see more of the, discrepancy or differentiation in what athletes got paid. And we all know what Allyson Felix went through.

Toyin Augustus [00:27:07]:
We don’t all know. But for those who know what Alison Felix, who’s, like, such a decorated US track and field athlete, amazing human, by the way, what she went through in terms of, oh, you’re, you know, you’re pregnant or you can’t do that. You know, there was a lot of, like her contract was, you know, biased in that way. Right? Because men aren’t gonna be impacted with childbirth in the same ways that women are. And so companies like, you know, Nike and Adidas and Mizuno and New Balance and all that, they have the option of creating contracts that are are biased based on gender, maybe even race. You know? And I haven’t seen those contracts, so I can’t speak, like, in a in an educated manner in terms of what they actually say. But we do know that someone someone like Allison Felix did walk away from a pretty big contract based on what they were offering that was not okay. So yeah.

Toyin Augustus [00:27:57]:
So in some ways, very objective and unbiased in track and field, and in other ways, very much still problematic. Yeah.

Sarah Tacy [00:28:05]:
Can you tell me a little bit of your transition? I’m I’m jumping here a little bit, but your transition from track and field I could be jumping so big here. From track and field into motherhood.

Toyin Augustus [00:28:19]:
Yeah. You know, it’s interesting because, like, as a track athlete who is a woman and, you know, I told you I I found a partner in 2,008, and we were married in 2011. Of course, I’m gonna be thinking about whether or not, like, having a kid is is something that’s good for me. Actually, let me say that I I dated somebody in Europe. And for, like, a couple years that I met, it was it was very cute. Right? Like, I was like, oh, this is

Sarah Tacy [00:28:48]:
like I can tell by the smile.

Toyin Augustus [00:28:51]:
Sarah in Belgium. Like, it’s like you know, it was hard because, like, we adored each other. And part of what was challenging was that I was like, I’m still competing. I don’t know what you’re thinking about, but, like, I’m not about to, like, give all this up. So I’m like so I can start having a family because it’s a huge sacrifice. Right? Like, this is my career and it’s not quite where I want it to be yet. And so what you’re asking of me is big. Right? And so that that didn’t end up working out.

Toyin Augustus [00:29:18]:
So fast forward, 2011, partnered again or 2008, and then 2011, we get married, and I’m like part of what’s going on in my head is like, oh, I heard that after you have a kid, like, you’re actually stronger. And I’m like, I believe that because that is a workout for 10 months if I ever knew one. And so just even deciding that that was something I wanted to do was, like, a big question in trying to, like, justify it with this whole, like, narrative around, like, am I gonna be stronger after childbirth? But I I was actually coming. So my daughter was born in 2012, so I was coming out of my career and had planned on doing, like, a little bit of, like, a, I’m gonna have start this family, have this kid, and then I’m gonna go back into training. And so that was kinda like the idea. And I don’t know. I was fine with the idea at that at that time, had moved into, like, kind of a a different phase of life, if you will, and had seen I think it was important to see some examples of female athletes who had kids and were still competing. And we’re seeing so much more of that, like, just the strong, amazing women with their kids being like, yeah.

Toyin Augustus [00:30:29]:
I did this, did that. You know what I mean? Like and I can I can keep doing it? Right? And messages around, like, you can do it all. Right? You know, within reason because then we get back into the, like, why are we trying to do it all and do it all perfectly? We I think we’re better served to live in the imperfection of that than to try to do all that perfectly. So so yeah. I mean, I don’t really know exactly how to answer your question except that the the journey to that decision was interesting, complicated, and felt not that difficult when the when the time was right. Again, different phase of my life. I was, like, in my thirties at that point. And so I was also, like, you know, you’re not that young.

Toyin Augustus [00:31:07]:
You’re like in 20 something, you might be like, I’m not ready to have a kid. But I will say that after when she start when my daughter started to, like, be able to walk and, like, it was just it’s it’s been really, really, really important to me that I model the type of person, female, black, athlete, just citizen of this world that I want her to see and emulate. My purpose behind the way that I moved in the world became bigger for me. And because she’s a girl. Right? Like, we share the intersections of our identities that we share, I think, are so critical to how she moves and how people see her. And so I just I continue. She’s 11 now. Right? I I continue to try to not prevent her from seeing harshness in this world, or I’ll try to, like, save her from hurting, but try to equip her with the skills and the knowledge to where she can make the decisions without me.

Toyin Augustus [00:32:25]:
I’m not always gonna be there, and I cringe at some of the things that she brings home. And I know that I’m missing so much of what she is taking in from this world, and there’s no way that I could be there for all the things. And so the best thing I can do for her is to prepare her for what she might Tacy. And not specifically like this situation, that situation, although I do do that as well.

Sarah Tacy [00:32:48]:
But more holistically as who do you

Toyin Augustus [00:32:51]:
wanna be? How do you wanna show up? What do you want people to know of you and think of you and see in you? And what is it that you wanna give to the world? Right? And so these are big ideas that she doesn’t quite fully grasp. But when she gets in trouble, which she did, like, last week in school, I’m like, I did not raise you to behave in this way, and this is not who you are. I know who you are, and I’m proud of who you are. I’m not proud of this decision that you made. I am not happy with this decision that you made. And people are hurt by this decision. I’m hurt by this decision, And you can do better. And I want to love you into doing better.

Toyin Augustus [00:33:33]:
There’s gonna be consequences to these actions. There already have been. And you can come out of that. You can make a different decision. You can put down whatever it is that you picked up to think that this was okay. And you can just you you can choose to restore and reconcile. I was really proud of her, actually, just as a sidebar that the thing that she did was was it wasn’t that big in my opinion. And the way that people saw it, I think also based on, you know, her her socialized identities was bigger than I think it would have been if it was a different body.

Toyin Augustus [00:34:09]:
What I was proud of was that she took the initiative to reach out to her friend and write a an apology letter. And this is something that we’ve done before, where it’s like, oh, you made a mistake or you created harm. And what you wanna do in this moment is to acknowledge it, see if you can make it right, and choose to not behave in that way again. And so the fact that she went ahead and already took the initiative to write that apology letter and really acknowledge what she did and where the harm was and that she didn’t wanna do it again, just to me was like, yes. It was like a mommy win. I was like, yes. That’s who I want you to be in this world because we’re always gonna make mistakes. We’re always gonna create harm, big and small, and we do not have to become the harm.

Toyin Augustus [00:34:59]:
Right? We do not have to let that become who we are. Right? We are all more than the worst thing we’ve ever done. That’s a Brian Sison quote that I love. Each of us is more than the worst thing we’ve ever done. And I I think it’s so important for us to remember that it moves us away from shame cycles that say you are the thing as opposed to you did a thing. And And we just don’t have enough of that, I think, in the world, and I’m glad that she was able to move in that restorative way. And I hope she carries that. That’s a mom teaching that I I want her, like, in 10 years to be like, my mom always said.

Sarah Tacy [00:35:37]:
When she’s on a podcast or whatever.

Toyin Augustus [00:35:39]:
Hey.

Sarah Tacy [00:35:40]:
Why is mom?

Toyin Augustus [00:35:42]:
You know, I haven’t done a lot. I don’t have all the things well, but, you know, take my wins where I can.

Sarah Tacy [00:35:47]:
I mean, I love the boundaries matched with love, And the boundary is matched with, I see you and I know you for who you absolutely are. And being there as a reminder, it sounds like from here, that you’re there as a reminder of I know exactly who you are. Mhmm. And I think sometimes sometimes in our own lives and I think you’re saying that you’re you’re hoping she’ll have this too. It’s like, I can say in my life that there have been times where I’m like, oh, this is out of alignment and not just what I’ve said or what I’ve done, but it could even be, like, where I’m at in life. Like, it could be one of those mornings where I look in the mirror. I’m like, wait. I created this I created this life, but how come I don’t feel alive or aligned within it? Right? Like, I don’t know if that makes sense how it lines up, but that we I think we have to become that reminder for ourselves, as you were saying, to know who we are, to know who we absolutely are, to be able to fall, to be able to get back up.

Sarah Tacy [00:36:52]:
And what a beautiful gift to have a mother figure be that for you. Right? Because so much of the work we do as adults is, like, remothering

Toyin Augustus [00:37:05]:
Mhmm.

Sarah Tacy [00:37:06]:
Ourselves and realizing, like, we have to be our own mothers. And I have a mother that I love, so I’m not saying this as, like, I’m not throwing, like, shame anywhere. But it’s, yeah, really, really beautiful. And I’m guessing you could tell me if I’m wrong here, but I’m guessing that some of your clarity in the ways of harm was caused and this is not who you are and here’s how there can be repairs. I’m guessing that also plays into a lot of what you teach within your work these days.

Toyin Augustus [00:37:41]:
Absolutely.

Sarah Tacy [00:37:43]:
How, like, the work you’re doing, the world is like, she can just she can see it by who you’re being, but also what you’re spreading. Would you be willing to talk to us about the work you do in the world now on top of being a world world record maker.

Toyin Augustus [00:38:00]:
Yeah. Side hustles.

Sarah Tacy [00:38:02]:
Yeah. Side hustles.

Toyin Augustus [00:38:03]:
Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for that. I just wanna name the, like, part of that whole, like, remothering idea is I I’ve learned through theories of transactional analysis and our child ego states, our adult states, and and our parenting states. And, yes, I our our parent voices are the voices that become our adult voices, and they continue to speak to our child ego. And I want for the moments when the world, it wants to shame that the voice inside that was once my voice becomes her voice to say, you are good. You are right. You are valuable. And when you make mistakes, that you are still those things, and you can, like, do better.

Toyin Augustus [00:38:58]:
That you can make a change, that you can restore. And it is absolutely 100% that the part of the work that I’m doing and such a critical part of the work that I’m doing with across the tracks in my equity and inclusion journey that is both personal and professional, that I I live into this work and that I I also wanna mod model this work for for people in the way that I move In a world that is broken and constantly creating harm, that we can be the healers, that we can invest in different ideas of ourselves and of our communities to reimagine something that’s closer to our origins and impacts our futures to where we can all be more liberated beings. I know it sounds like idealistic and lofty and all of those things, and I love it. You know, I I I hope that, and I’m like, yes. It is all of those things, and it is very practical. It is very skill based. It is very tools based. It is the both end of, you know, tree hugging and policy making.

Toyin Augustus [00:40:21]:
Right? Like, it all needs to live together, that we need to live together in our differences, and that’s that’s really where we start with this work. So across the tracks is consultancy that I that I created. I mean, I created it with this idea that there’s bridges that we need to build across the metaphorical tracks. And if we are aware of the history of this country, parts of the history of this country, and how railroad tracks, you know, were were built dividing communities. And on one side of the tracks were these people, on the other side of the tracks were these people, and those people didn’t mix, and they didn’t connect. And we need to reconnect. That part of this work at at its core is reconnecting to each other and our humanity. And so my my org, if you will, myself and the colleagues that I partner with, seek to build these bridges that allow us to be authentic in ourselves and in our relationships so that we can start embracing thoughts and feelings and behaviors.

Toyin Augustus [00:41:19]:
Right? Like, what am I thinking about you? What am I thinking about myself? How can I think differently? What am I feeling? How does what you say land on me, what I say land on you? Right? And what can I do about it? Right? And so when we have those three things, like working in partnership, that we can create sustainable change, and that sustainable change can really transform our futures and transform us as people. And the ultimate goal is to allow all of us to feel empowered and valuable, for all of us to feel more humanized. Right? So this is humanizing work in the way that I see it. And there’s a lot, DEI is this and DEI is that. And I’m like, I’m Sarah. Are you practicing anything? And how do you understand it? Can we, like, go back to definitions a little bit and get to a better understanding? Because I do think that we would find more places that we agree than we disagree. The practices can definitely look different, and I can’t say that I agree with every DEI practitioner out there because we’re all working through our stuff. And I I believe in the transformational possibilities that we have in this world when we can care for each other and humanize each other.

Sarah Tacy [00:42:25]:
DEI is diversity, equity, and inclusion?

Toyin Augustus [00:42:28]:
Yes. And there’s a j for justice, and there’s a b for belonging. And it is an industry that obviously erupted, if you will, post George Floyd summer, and yet has been going and working for, like, dozens of years before that and has evolved and will continue to evolve in you know? That was a threshold moment, right, for for the US, for the world to see that. And so what do we do with our threshold moment? What have we learned? What do we get rid of? What do we keep? And I think a lot of organizations and individuals are asking themselves this question, And it’s fascinating to listen to folks and see, you know, where they are making sense of what’s happening and what continues to happen. And I’m always excited about what the artists are doing and how they’re creating and recreating for us to visualize what’s possible and also what’s happened, because we do need to reflect upon all that’s happened. So, yeah, I’m I’m working with organizations, social service organizations, educational institutions now. I’ve moved out from working as a diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging director at an independent school that was rather harmful to my body and into serving communities that want to do this work in a transformational way. Not everyone does.

Toyin Augustus [00:43:53]:
That particular school was not interested in working in a transformative way and therefore responded in oppressive ways to what I wanted to offer. And it’s okay to decide that you are not aligned. It’s not okay then to utilize oppressive methods to silence and harm bodies. And so it’s it’s been a journey to continue to heal from that. And I’m so grateful for where I am right now and how god used, you know, what’s done meant for evil for good in my life. And I’m trying to live into that and heal from the healing journey has been real.

Sarah Tacy [00:44:45]:
It’s never been Yeah. Thanks for saying that. Yeah. Gosh.

Toyin Augustus [00:44:48]:
It’s yeah. It’s such a struggle. It’s such a struggle because I wanna move in love. I wanna move Really? In gentleness. I wanna move in wisdom, and I pray for those things. And I’ve been given opportunities to really work through that in countless ways, just people who I’ve interacted with since that since that time. And just still feeling just very, very grateful. And for the community that I’ve built there and community that I’ve built outside of there and the way that this journey continues to bless me because, yeah, only god knows what I’ve been through.

Sarah Tacy [00:45:26]:
I’m listening to your languaging, and I’m guessing that you’re saying as much as you’re saying to not get into specific details because it involves other humans, I’m guessing. And so as I’m just kind of piecing together in my head, I just wanna say that I imagine that when you go in to do really transformative work and that you have a vision of what that can be, that when you receive the opposite, like, not even, like, support, but you receive the opposite, How jarring and painful that is. And I hear that you’re looking for the silver lining, which might be that you are free to do the work that you’re here to do in your way without somebody else being the, like, the having a say over you. And I just wanna honor how how painful I imagine those mixed messages can be or experiences. Yeah.

Toyin Augustus [00:46:24]:
Yeah. They can. They can. Thank you for seeing that and hearing it. It is very painful. And I also recognize that and this was part of my healing journey is that hurt people hurt people. Right? And we say that and we know it. And then when we experience it, it’s really hard to hold.

Toyin Augustus [00:46:45]:
It’s really, really hard to hold. When someone is, like, leveraging harm on your body, on bodies of people that you love, that you care about, and then someone asks you to love them, it’s like, oh, you’re crazy. You’re crazy.

Sarah Tacy [00:47:05]:
Okay? Why would you

Toyin Augustus [00:47:08]:
why would you even offer that? That’s madness. Right? And yet, I believe that’s what we’re called to do because offering the same back is not the solution. What we want to do is hurt the people who are hurting us, and that’s the model that we have in this country. And so we see that manifesting as eye for an eye, everybody’s blind type of thing. Right? You hurt me, I hurt you. You come for me, I come for you. And it’s not everybody. There’s people who wanna move away from that.

Toyin Augustus [00:47:45]:
There’s people who wanna do differently, and there’s people who don’t, and there’s people who can’t. They’re so hurt. And I experienced that. I experienced people having no other skills and tools. So going back to what I’m trying to teach and offer in my work, is that when you don’t have another option that you can see, that you can feel, that’s tangible, that’s understandable, that you can feel, then you go with what you know. And if harm and dehumanization is what you know, you’re gonna use that tool. As that happened to me, I was put in a position to respond in like, and that’s where the healing had to start for me, is in recognizing that I didn’t want that. I didn’t wanna take that option.

Toyin Augustus [00:48:35]:
And it was natural, and it was it felt useful. And it is useful, right, in the moment. Long term, though, I don’t want that in my body. I don’t want vengeance and revenge in my body, and I don’t want to become the oppressor. And so that, for me, is real healing.

Sarah Tacy [00:48:58]:
Mhmm.

Toyin Augustus [00:48:58]:
It’s being able to take the harm on me and my body. And instead of taking that in and throwing it back out into the world, to be able to either shield from some of it as that’s not about me, that’s about you. Can’t do that with all of it. So that’s one one thing. Also, to be able to, like, understand it, synthesize it, and forgive it. And I think 3rd, to be able to take that synthesis and to transform it into how do we heal from this? How do we still love? How do we protect others? And that’s hard and it’s complicated, and I don’t have all the answers. But I have that vision. And so I carry that into the work that I do.

Toyin Augustus [00:49:56]:
And again, when people hear it kind of outright, they’re like, it’s kinda crazy. I don’t know why you’re asking me to do this. And yet I think for those who have gotten a taste of it, it is liberation. And I want that for us.

Sarah Tacy [00:50:11]:
When they get a Tacy?

Toyin Augustus [00:50:14]:
When they get a taste of what it means to be free from wanting vengeance and harmony.

Sarah Tacy [00:50:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I feel like the word freedom I don’t know if you feel this way, but sometimes when I’ve held resentment, I don’t want to hold it. And I’m so aware of the thing of, like, nothing is I don’t wanna say nothing is personal because I understand in so many situations where that is not true, but where you could look at a situation and I can rationalize. And you just gave an example of when people fall into harmful patterns because that’s all they know. And my body is still feeling the hurt even if my mind can understand the scenario from a, like, bird’s eye perspective. And that’s something I’m still learning how to honor and where and how to process. And I I heard you talk about appropriate shields.

Sarah Tacy [00:51:13]:
And I think even in just having the vision of the mantra and the value of I will not be the oppressor. Mhmm. That feels really big and so clear to me. And as you were saying, telling the story, I’m also just thinking of the way that you are being what I imagine you want your daughter to see and be in a woman or a human, which is both finding your boundaries, finding the core of who you are, continuing to go forward to do the work that you’re here to do, and choosing your response for yourself, not for them. Yeah. That’s really powerful. Thank you for sharing.

Toyin Augustus [00:52:05]:
Yeah. It’s choosing who who you wanna be in the world. Right? If I’m constantly responding and reacting to what other people are doing, I’m not living in my power. I’m not living in my authenticity. I am being pushed and pulled. I am being manipulated. There’s a whole, like, I’m not gonna tell the whole, like it’s it’s not a it’s not a joke. It’s like a story.

Toyin Augustus [00:52:28]:
It’s like a terrible thing. But, basically, it’s like someone does something to hurt you. They do something to hurt you again, and then you see them again, and you have an opportunity to, like, hurt them back or ignore them. And it’s like, well, why would you do that? And then you do the you do the thing where you’re like, you actually offer love. Right? You could do nothing. You could harm back. And then this third option that no one thought was part of the option was, like, to to offer love back. And then a bystander asked, like, why would you do that after they hurt you? You could’ve just walked away.

Toyin Augustus [00:52:55]:
You could’ve left it alone, or you could’ve gotten them back. Right? And it’s like, I’m not I’m not doing it because of who they are. It wasn’t about them. It’s about who I choose to be in the world. And we can’t control everybody. I can offer my workshops. I can offer strategy. I can offer tools.

Toyin Augustus [00:53:11]:
I can give resources. I can build skills. But you have to make a choice to, like, actually use them. I can lead you to water. Right? You have to choose to drink. And I can’t do it for you. Right? I need to teach you how to fish. Right? I I can’t go do all the you know, I give you a fish you eat for the day.

Toyin Augustus [00:53:33]:
Right? That’s how it goes. If I teach you to fish, you eat for a lifetime. Right? Yeah. I wanna I wanna lead you to the water, and I want you to choose a drink. I teach you how to fish, and I want you to eat and always eat. But I can only really control me. And so at the end of the day, if you choose no, I just gotta keep choosing yes for me. Not easy.

Toyin Augustus [00:53:58]:
Like, it sounds really good. You know, it sounds

Sarah Tacy [00:54:01]:
I know. All of these spiritual, like, high road things, they do. And I so often, like, when I’m in the pits of something and I think back to, like, oh, remember when you taught this and it felt so, like, so great to teach it? And then they’re like, when I’m in it in it, I’m like, oh, this is real. This is this is hard. Like, this is the work. It’s the work. So it’s

Toyin Augustus [00:54:23]:
like community comes in. That is where your community is so important. Who are who is around you? Who are your mentors? Who are your colleagues? Who is in your inner circle? Because those are the people who will know what’s happening with you and will steer you in one direction or another. So, yeah, it’s fine to have, like, friends of all walks of life and doing all kinds of things. But when stuff hits the fan, like, who is going to be there to say, hey. I know who you are. I love you. I know what you’re capable of, and I’m here to support you to be that.

Toyin Augustus [00:55:03]:
Like, that’s what we need. And in a society that’s so just being top of the mountain, all of those ideals are crippling. They do not sustain us. Where is our community? Because we will be weaker, and when we’re weaker, we need support. When I’m stressed, when I’m tired, when the stuff really happens to me, I need people to say, that’s not what you wanna do though, boo. Like, I know you. I know you. You may not be able to see you right now, but I see you.

Toyin Augustus [00:55:47]:
Right? And so I just encourage folks to, like, cultivate a community of people in your inner circle that are gonna hold you accountable for being the most beautiful, amazing person that you can be. Because it’s not gonna be easy. And it wasn’t it wasn’t it wasn’t easy for me either. And it still continues to not be easy because I’m like I’m still talking to myself. Like, Toi, girl, you’re better than that. Or I’m like, god, I hear you. Because in my in my mind, I’m like god’s like, uh-uh. And I’m like, I got something.

Toyin Augustus [00:56:26]:
But I’m so grateful. I’m so great that I am plugged in to my community of people who I’m already that kind of person anyway. I’m like a few friends that go deep, then they, like, friends with everybody. I actually know a lot of people just from all of the different work that I do, and yet there’s, like, 4 people that I would call, and they know all the things. You know? Yeah. Plugged into them and also plugged into the higher power that is an endless supply of love. Endless supply of love.

Sarah Tacy [00:57:03]:
A man I work with says stress is when you have more demands than resources. And the work I do with with people is often to cultivate or and or recognize the resources that are already here. And for some, the thought of looking for it in nature might be more accessible than God and those who have access. I know we all have access, but those who are attuned to their spirit team, to God, to their ancestors, it is such a resource. It is a resource when, like, everything else feels impossible. Mhmm. It’s like and I guess this is where living free saving grace comes from. It’s really powerful.

Sarah Tacy [00:57:47]:
And the same man I was talking to him this morning, I was like, man, I this week, I was looping over something that felt really painful. And and I have people that I love that would be so happy if I would call them. And I just noticed, like, it is just it still feels it’s still a hard one for me to do. And so it’s so beautiful for me to hear you say that you have 4 people that you reach out to. I have big network of incredible humans in my life. And yet when those moments come, I’m working on it. It’s just really hard for me to pick up the phone. So I’m so glad you have that.

Sarah Tacy [00:58:36]:
And I’m so glad that you mentioned that. And I hope I utilize it more. And I’m assuming there are some people listening who that might be a thing for too. So thank you and thank you for all of your wisdom. Sometimes I feel like I talk more on the podcast and this time I’m just like, I’m just gonna listen to your wisdom. Just keep bringing it. I don’t really need to reflect much on this because you’re like you the giving the story and the things that we can take from it is so beautiful. I’m so grateful for you taking time, and best of luck tomorrow.

Toyin Augustus [00:59:15]:
Thank you.

Sarah Tacy [00:59:17]:
There’s, like, if I had another hour, I’d wanna be like, oh, what? Like, on 2024, maybe you wanna run again and are you 44?

Toyin Augustus [00:59:27]:
I am 44. I am 44.

Sarah Tacy [00:59:29]:
About that number that I’ve been hearing lately where people like they’re like, 44 is the year. Like, it just or, like, for some women who I think are, like, profoundly deep, amazing women. They’re like, people talk about 40 like it’s a big deal. They’re, like, 44.

Toyin Augustus [00:59:45]:
Hey. And

Sarah Tacy [00:59:46]:
so, like, that you had this, like, urge, like, getting back at it. Again?

Toyin Augustus [00:59:51]:
It was part of the healing process, actually, Sarah. It was it was a plugging back in because in my training, and I I I don’t didn’t touch too much on this. When the trauma hit my body in 2023, And the way that I pulled back into myself and tapping into God was through my training because that’s always been a space where I feel outside of going to church and being in my bible, it is like running, working out. And so I got on the treadmill. I started lifting weights, and I would be literally on the treadmill like, god. What? Like, listening to, like, Lauren Daigle and, like, Lecrae and other artists who, like, just really speak to my heart and my soul. And so it was my plug in space. And so as I was getting stronger and stronger, that’s when I was like, oh, I could just, like, keep doing this.

Toyin Augustus [01:00:45]:
I could run. Let me look into this. So it’s kinda like the competing again was like an offshoot of using this skill, this tool that plugs me back into a spiritual place that I was disconnected from because the work I was doing for this org took me away from that, took me away from training. I was at a desk training, like, my body, like, physically. Yeah. And took me away from just even having time to be in my bod like, there was many ways that I was giving up parts of me that I needed for my thriving. And so tapping back into that got me back into the training. And so and I and I feel super close.

Toyin Augustus [01:01:23]:
Right? I’m reaching up and and feeling God’s closeness.

Sarah Tacy [01:01:26]:
That’s incredible. I kinda wanna end it there, and there’s a part of me that wants to Tacy, like my mentor will say that we all have daily fight and flight outlets that our body needs. Mhmm. And when I was looping the other day, I don’t particularly I love sprinting, but I don’t love, like, going for a run. And it was the only thing that eventually stopped it. And there was another woman I was really moved by who had a major tragedy in her life and for a couple of years was emotionally debilitated by it to the point she was like, it would take me 2 hours to write a check. Like, I just and when she moved to Vermont to work on a project, she started cross country skiing every day. And as she was cross country skiing, her brain started working again and her sense of self started coming back.

Sarah Tacy [01:02:23]:
And one is, like, she’s in nature, but the other is this rhythmic movement of our body. We’re, like, meant to be in our bodies. And then to feel the power, like, through weight lifting, like, I am super into emotional anatomy and how we move our bodies, changes our hormones and the way we feel, and most likely how spirit enters us. Like, the whole like, I’m so moved by it. And that this is a part of your past in which you excelled is can I can imagine would also be a remembrance of part of who you are? So I’m actually really, really glad that you added that in. And I love that this, like going for a world record started with like, actually I’m doing this to heal.

Toyin Augustus [01:03:11]:
Thank you. Oh my God. It’s been like low key therapy. How much do I owe you?

Sarah Tacy [01:03:18]:
This is such a gift. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your whole life that you’ve lived and all the ways that you’ve navigated it and all the wisdom that you bring to the world now and for taking an hour to share it with me and the listeners. And I wish you all the luck. But also I’m just like, and I hear that the purpose is also so much bigger.

Sarah Tacy [01:03:41]:
So, yay.

Toyin Augustus [01:03:44]:
Yeah. Just trying to stay in it, receiving this season of abundance that I feel in my body, in my life, and doing it all with the purpose of living into the purpose of being, I’d say, the best, like, future ancestor that it can be. Like, we are we are on a journey, and it will end on this Sarah. And what what will be our legacy? So thank you to the ancestor just before that did all the things and gave the assignments. I think I understand I’m still working on it. So I just I thank God. And I’m so glad that you invited me onto this space and this podcast with your listeners. And just I know I know that somebody’s listening that needs us, you know, even if it’s just one person.

Toyin Augustus [01:04:38]:
So I just I really appreciate that. And Michelle for bringing us together.

Sarah Tacy [01:04:42]:
Yes. I was like, yeah.

Toyin Augustus [01:04:43]:
I was like, oh,

Sarah Tacy [01:04:43]:
yes. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in. It’s been such a pleasure. If you’re looking for added support, I’m offering a program that’s totally free called 21 days of untapped support. Support. It’s pretty awesome. It’s very easy.

Sarah Tacy [01:05:07]:
It’s very helpful. You can find it at Sarah. And if you love this episode, please subscribe and like. Apparently, it’s wildly useful. So we could just explore what happens when you scroll down to the bottom. Subscribe, rate, maybe say a thing or 2. If you’re not feeling it, don’t do it. It’s totally fine.

Sarah Tacy [01:05:30]:
I look forward to gathering with you again. Thank you so much.